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Author Topic: how can water get into aft trim line?  (Read 2871 times)
drew
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« on: January 10, 2016, 09:38:45 PM »

I have noticed water leaking out of the trim line hose valve in the forward engine room. The valve is located on the port side of the Lionfish. The pipe is about centered in the height dimension of the pressure hull.
I can try to stop the water from coming out of the valve (work on the packing and seal) but I think the valve isn't really the problem. The troubling issue is that somewher there is water getting into the trim line.

I have looked at the documentation (http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/trim/chap2.htm), but it isn't clear to me exactly where the aft trim pipe goes an how many things connect to it.

Any ideas for where to look for the source of the water?

Thanx,
Drew

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Darrin
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 11:18:54 AM »

Drew,

Please review the School of the Boat section on Trim and Drain because we talked about the differences between some of the different classes of boats, the Fleet Manual teaches the Balao class and there were minor differences in that class and it others to follow it.

Check to see IF you have any of the ships qualification diagrams onboard because that will save you from having to do the "hand over hand" verification of where that line originated from, which still isn't a bad idea because things do get changed and or cut when a boat is turned into a museum.

From what I remember about the Lionfish is that she hasn't seen a shipyard drydock period in decades and you may have a "blanking plate" on one of your sea chests that has rusted through now allowing water back into that tank once more.

Honestly I would start with verifying that the Trim station valves are all in the SHUT position and then start doing a tank inspection one by one to see if any water is in these tanks, I am sure that some of our experts here would disagree with my last comment however there is a method to my madness.

While you can try to tighten the packing down on the existing valve I would recommend that you remove and replace the existing ball valve with a new one because any ball valve that has had water setting on it for decades is due to rust out also. On Torsk we found that a couple of ball valves had rusted away completely on the Sea Water system for one of our main engines to the point that the ball was no longer present.

So with that being said IF the Lionfish isn't due to enter a drydock anytime in the near future that IMHO is the best way to fix the problem right now and make sure that it is documented that the valve was replaced.

Good luck Drew, I hope that this helped out

Darrin
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drew
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 09:59:00 PM »

One day I watched one of the maintenance guys pump out one of the tanks on the starboard side. As he removed one of the main tenace plates that was added on the outside of the tank, I could see the water level in the tank is higher than the level of the water on the outside of the tank. I tried to politely suggest that was kinda unusual. My guess is that rainwater is flowing into the tanks. If the vent valves or their pipes has rusted badly enough then water can get it. Since the staff doesn't keep the waterways on the top of the pressure tank unplugged and free flowing, standing water could have caused a rusted thru path to the tanks.

So I like the idea of the tank inspection. The maintenance guys are used to looking for when the trim of the boat is off, which means it is time to pump some tank. I didn't realize there was a pathway from the tanks into the boat. Hopefully some reading and crawling thru the boat will reveal something. The park fired the maintenance guy who really knew the boat. And the curator resigned. so I don't know who to ask about drawings. It hasn't been a good couple of months for the boat.

How did you find the parts to "remove and replace the existing ball valve"?.
The ATR trim line "fire hose" valve is much higher than my leaking valve, perhaps the water isn't up to that level. If so maybe I can swap parts.

Darrin I appreciate all the suggestions. I am mostly on my own for a problem like this. It is very helpful to talk to people who may already know the answer, or may have ideas I haven't thought of.
Thanx,
Drew



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pekelney
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« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 10:06:25 PM »

Drew's theory sounds plausible.

See:http://maritime.org/tech/drawings/ballast-trim-drain-diagram_ss383-s4801-69150_ATNARA.jpg

Start by making sure all the valves are shut so nothing is moving through the trim and drain line, manifold, compartment suction lines, etc.  Then start sounding tanks.  When checking the waterways, also check the vent risers that lead to the vent valves.  Cobia had problems on some of these.

rich
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 10:09:39 PM by pekelney » Logged
Darrin
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 02:24:13 PM »

Drew,
Over the years Torsk has done a number of strip ships to get repair parts so that we could maintain the boat years to come, I don't know if you all have any repair parts onboard or not. Worse comes to worse you can still go and purchase the ball valve if you find that it has rotted away.

I am sorry that I can't do more from here other then offer advice

Darrin
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drew
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 09:19:04 PM »

Darrin,

Have you heard this story about Charles Steinmetz and Henry Ford?
- - -
Ford, whose electrical engineers couldn’t solve some problems they were having with a gigantic generator, called Steinmetz in to the plant. Upon arriving, Steinmetz rejected all assistance and asked only for a notebook, pencil and cot. According to Scott, Steinmetz listened to the generator and scribbled computations on the notepad for two straight days and nights. On the second night, he asked for a ladder, climbed up the generator and made a chalk mark on its side. Then he told Ford’s skeptical engineers to remove a plate at the mark and replace sixteen windings from the field coil. They did, and the generator performed to perfection.

Henry Ford was thrilled until he got an invoice from General Electric in the amount of $10,000. Ford acknowledged Steinmetz’s success but balked at the figure. He asked for an itemized bill.
Steinmetz, Scott wrote, responded personally to Ford’s request with the following:

Making chalk mark on generator    $1.
Knowing where to make mark         $9,999.
- ---

I definitely value and appreciate your advice. Althought I am not prepared to offer $9,999.00  I would be happy to buy you a beer if we ever met.

As an update I have found a hole rotted in the most forward ballast vent pipe on stbd side, where rain water filling the waterway will pour into the tank.
I am not sure what tank it is because it is difficult for me to know where I am with the unfammiliar landmarks on the pressure hull. Maybe main ballast tank #1?

Although this tank is flooded it probably isn't the source of the water in the trim line if I am reading the manuals correctly.
I think they indicate only aux1, aux2, safety, and negative has connects to the trim manifold.
So maybe the old gal has multiple tanks flooded.




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