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Author Topic: Manual Bow Plane Rigging  (Read 2492 times)
Mark Sarsfield
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« on: June 04, 2008, 01:42:03 PM »

The 1946 manual describes how to manually rig the bow planes using the bow plane wheel in the con (essentially using the hydraulic system by hand).  I did not find any mention of the emergency chain wheel on the motor in the FTR.  Does anyone know what direction it needs to be rotated in and if there are any interlocks or other levers that need to be engaged or disengaged before operation?  I know that the transmission in the FTR needs to be set to "Bow Rigging".  Thanks.
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Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Tom Bowser
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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 06:26:18 PM »

I doupt if anyone at the Park remmembers how they did it 7 years ago and most of those people aren't there any more, good Luck
Tom bowser
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Darrin
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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2008, 07:51:40 PM »

Well shipmate there is only one way to find out...... PLEASE grease ALL of the system prior to starting that evolution and have someone greasing and monitoring it as you go, that is another of the projects for Torsk is to get her bow planes all the way back up and stowed correctly.. Hadn't thought of using the chains to do that even knowing what it is there for, been trying to finger...ooooops I mean figure out how to get Hydraulics to run up there on a portable (or in our case a non-portable) hydraulic unit without blowing all of the seals out and creating more leaks and problems then what it is worth.
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Mark Sarsfield
Former USS Batfish Volunteer
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« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2008, 08:43:24 AM »

I would recommend the chain and I'm definitely leaning toward greasing everything, first.  They welded small plates onto the end of each bow plane to safety cable them in the up position.  We cut the cable two weeks ago and those things aren't going anywhere in their curent state.

I really would like to see some hydraulics gurus come aboard the volunteer wagon and tackle the hydraulics.  At least for the sake of just raising and lowering the scopes.  We don't need to tilt dive planes.

I liked the idea that you Torsk guys came up with by getting UPS batteries in banks of 21 to supply 250 VDC power to systems that need that kind of power.  I can't imagine that it would last for very long, though, unless that they are deep cycle batteries like for marine use - car batteries would die in 5 minutes.
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Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 08:54:39 PM »

We have been talking about resurecting the hydraulics so we can raise and lower our scopes and everything else comes after that.... Biggest problem is that with these systems most of them have been drained for 30+ years and when you introduce hydraulics to them they are going to leak like soup sandwiches and that only a few have the abilities to rebuild them assuming that they come down and come apart without too many problems. Now with that you NEED to rebuild ALL of the valves prior to that evolution unless you want to clean up hydraulic oil for the rest of your life, then their comes the cost of getting the MILSPEC hydraulic fluid or a replacement that meets the MILSPEC standards. Who wants to pay for 50 to 100 gallons of hydraulic fluid and the oring kits for ALL of the valves that you are going to be using???

IF your scopes have been up for a LOOOOOONG time you may want to consider that they have wedges installed to keep them from coming down, that means that YOU have to go and FIND all of them and the Navy hid them pretty damned well.. Goood luck, it took us a couple of years of dedicated looking to find them and then finally remove them so that one day we can raise and lower them, AND we have our own reasonably portable hydraulic unit..

Speaking of hydraulic's when was the last time that your IMO's were serviced or worked?Huh? when was the last time that your filters were cleaned or changed?Huh? when was the last time your hydraulic accumulator had fluid in it and the fluid moved?Huh? and when was the last time that your hydraulic motors had DC power applied to them to rotate?Huh?

While it sounds like I am shooting you down every turn you make it isn't that, I did the same thing and I got the same response all the way around and I felt like that I was a piece of poo after asking to resurect the hydraulics (btw it may need permission and a WELL thought out restoration plan approved before you can start work)
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Mark Sarsfield
Former USS Batfish Volunteer
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2008, 09:31:03 AM »

To answer the date questions, it's about 40 years since the systems were used.  I always knew that everything would need to be torn apart and overhauled.  Plus, hydraulic fluid is nasty hazmat stuff.  Even though the system has been drained, you still have residue and we have some nasty sludge sitting at the base of the scopes in the pump room, too.

The scopes were raised by the museum with high pressure water, if I remember the story correctly.  I think they brought in a pumper fire truck, but I may be smoking crack.  My assumption is that they tapped into the hydraulic system some how with the water, but I haven't sen any signs of tampering with the hydraulic plumbing in the pump room, control room, nor control tower.

As far as permission goes, my 7 years wih NAVAIR taught me that it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission - my manager told me that one.  "Oh, you didn't want those scopes to work?  We're sorry.  We'll disconnect the motors."   Roll Eyes

It's a BIG, messy project that I'd just as soon pass to another volunteer that gets his jollies from working on hydraulic systems.  Rebuilding the IMO electric motors is the easy part.  The valves on the hydraulic tank in the CR are frozen stiff.  The raisinga nd lowering handles inthe CT are also frozen in place.  It feels like they were pinned in place, but I don't see anything keeping them from moving.  My guess is that all valves are rusted in place.  Air conditioning was non-existent on the Batfish for about 40 years until our volunteer, Vaughn, installed two new units a year or two ago.  The thermal cycling and humidity have done wonders for the paint and equipment.   Shocked
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Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 04:52:28 PM »

Penetrating oil is a GODSEND on restoration of valves of any kind on these boats especially if they have little or no ac/heat for many years, that and not being cycled will freeze them up stiff. IF you have the tech manuals for them please review them and make sure that there isn't a pin installed where you can barely see it. When you get into the air valves you might want to back the gladhands (packing at the base of the stem) off a little if not all of the way, the reason behind it is that the packing is old and it is probably stuck to the stem and that will make it harder to turn the first couple of times you operate them. Again IF you are able to disassemble them it is easier then to fiddle with them and hope that they work.

When we restored the Torsk's air systems we removed a lot of the stuck valves and tore them down and rebuilt them, a lot of it was nothing more then pulling the guts out and cleaning them out and lubing them back up and yes cleaning and lubing the packing if you don't have any replacements and putting it all back together.
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