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Author Topic: Air System  (Read 8689 times)
Ctwilley
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« on: October 07, 2008, 01:56:35 PM »

We've been discussing the possibility of restoring the Batfish's lower psi air systems. Has anyone done any work on this system and do you have any tips on getting it back up and running? One thing we discussed was tapping into the system in each room with a  QD or two for the quick attachment of hoses for pneumatic tools. That would certainly make maintenance easier.
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2008, 02:20:23 PM »

Based on the current School of the Boat discussions, some boats do have low pressure air operating. 

Here's the link to the air systems chapters in the Fleet Boat manual.  You'll quickly notice that there is a lot of plumbing involved, including topside ports.  Lots of places for the sytem to spring a leak...  http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/air/index.htm


 
 
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 02:22:07 PM by Mark Sarsfield » Logged


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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Ctwilley
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2008, 03:45:19 PM »

Yeah I have the manual but I was wondering if anyone has any experiance that might come in handy. There's no need to reinvent the wheel.
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2008, 04:04:23 PM »

Oh, my bad.  Yeah, it would be nice if someone told us to just hook up a 100 psi air compressor to the blah bllah blah line in such and such compartment to get low pressure air service throughout the boat.  My idea is to tie into one of the blower lines in the pump room, but I may be wrong.
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2008, 05:58:21 PM »

Yes Torsk has her air systems up and running and we tied into the air lines at thehead in after battery and then slowly brought ALL of the air banks back up. Our air compressor is located in the LLAB and it is capable of 150 PSI intermittantly and we have 2 TOPSIDE that are capable of 175 PSI sustainable 24/7, those are going to be tied into one the Salvage Air connections topside and then back feed the whole boat. When restoring your air systems ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS check your gauges out first and then take your valves off of the air header and remove the blanking plate that is in it. Once you pressurize your first air bank do it SLOWLY and in small incriments, 20 PSI at a time and let it set and see how much leakage you have in your system prior to going any farther (when we brought ours back up it was 20 psi at a time and then let it set for 20 minutes before moving on) you may want to clean your filters in that air system prior to putting air in it for the first time. When you drain the air out of the air banks it bleeds INBOARD so be forewarned that those tanks have preservatives in them to keep them from rusting too badly so it will stink like hell and you will need to ventilate the compartment depending on how bad it gets (not worried about the smell it is the other gasses you need to worry about)
Biggest thing that I FORGOT to tell you in the beginning is that you HAVE to do a hand over hand inspection of that system when possible before you put any air into it, that will save you some time and troubleshooting, that and they you can draw out YOUR boat's schematics... OR if you can find someone's qual drawings from your boat just go back and hand over hand the whole system to make sure that it is all intact
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Darrin
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2008, 07:16:05 PM »

Our current air compressor is running through the 225 PSI line at the bulkhead at the after battery head, it is the compartment bleed air for the salvage air system at the gauge. Please put in a "T" valve and then add a quick disconnect and the gauge back on so you will be able to slowly bring the air system back on line. It is further recommended that you do 20 PSI one week and then check it the following week instead of 20 psi every 20 min
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torskdoc
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2008, 08:11:51 PM »

Darrin is mostly correct above.  The compressor in LLAB is a DEVILBIS 65Gal 6.5 peak hp unit.  It develops 125 psi.  it has been adjusted to get 135MAX.  Tie it in to the compartment Salvage air line at the engine room/AB bulkhead.

Having been involved with the 225# system since we 1st got the compressor in 1999, got a few suggestions.

1.) Regardless of whether you have qual drawings or not, DO A HAND OVER HAND and TAG the LINE in 2 places in each compartment (225psi header).  Make detailed drawings for maintenance, and a not so detailed drawing for operation.

2.) Work one (1) bank to full operation at a time.  You WILL have to open all joints and replace the square cut O-rings.  Also overhaul the particulate filter for each bank.(it's in a different place for each bank.)

3.) DO NOT go thru the 225# reducer as you will not have the psi to do so.  This reducer takes 600# and reduces to 225# for the system.  DO use the 225# Reducer bypass as your entry and exit point to and from the manifold.

4.) DO NOT bring the bank up to system pressure as soon as you get the bank and the lines tight.  The banks have not been hydro'ed for at least 40 years.  Bring the bank up in 20-25# stages per week.  Once you get to 100# stretch it out to 2 weeks per increment.

5.) DO Overhaul the GAUGE LINE VALVES on the manifold.  These have a NASTY Tendency to leak.  And they are on the Bank side of the manifold so they get bank pressure all the time. 

Example:  Say you want #3 bank working.  Open the following valves in order.  #3 Bank, Cross Connect#1(Fwd Stack of valves), Cross Connect #2(Aft stack of valves), 225# Reducer bypass.  Now you should have air in the 225# system by the gauge on the board.  NOTE:  There is a dump valve on the bottom of the manifold connected to the cross-connect which is part of the 3000# ship HP AIR system. Left to right facing the manifold: HP AIR FWD, DUMP(Exhaust valve), HP AIR AFT, Dockside Charging.  (I may have the last two reversed, your ship qual drawings will tell you). 

To Get #6 working, you open #6 Bank, and the 225# reducer bypass. 

To shut down the system just reverse procedure and blow it down using the dump valve on the hp manifold.

The 65gal compressor will bring up a bank in 4-5 hours to 125#.  That is constant running.  Break in the compressor for the 1st year or so according to the manufacturer spec (usually 15 on / 15 off).  Put a 12" fan close (standard Navy Compartment fan)to the pump and run it on high to help keep the pump cooler.  Change the oil once a month for the 1st year using straight 30WEIGHT NON DETERGENT OIL.   After that 4 times a year or when ever it gets dirty.  Check level frequently.

Size:  The 65Gal was a gold plated bitch to get in the boat tickedoff.  we had to remove the AB Ladder and mounts.  and the airlock door into the crews berthing are from the mess.   A smaller tanked compressor with a large pump will suffice as you will be using the banks as storage volume.  If you just have a pump with motor, you can tie it directly into the  compartment Salvage air line @ the FER/AB Bulkhead.  Use a "T" and a valve between the 225# system and the compressor.


The topside air (horn and tools line) hull valve should be in the overhead in control, STBD side, over the edge of the NAV Table.  It will be a hull stop with a drain line and valve on the drain line.  If someone is on the bridge you can scare the beejesus out of the river traffic, touristas, 2funny or just run air tools topside. 



Now get cracking DINK!!! police       laugh
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Darrin
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2008, 08:25:37 PM »

Thanks Doc for the assist on that
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Ctwilley
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2008, 08:08:09 AM »

...and we come to the reason for this forum. Man, you guys just saved us countless hours of guessing and wondering.  Smiley
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2008, 10:20:07 AM »

I folowed most of what you are saying, but it wouldn't hurt to have a qual'd vet to give us a hand in person.
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Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2008, 11:27:59 AM »

Mark,
the best thing to do is hand over hand the system to verify integrity and then use your qual drawings if you have any from a former crewmember and reverify that nothing has changed somewhere in the boat's lifetime and then open up the fleet submarine manual to the air systems chapter and study,study study how they are put together and how to rebuild them if needed.
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2008, 11:42:27 AM »

That's what we're going to have to do.  I think one of our frequent vets is a machinist mate, but he doesn't get to the boat very often.

I would like to see a few pictures of your compressor connection.  I have a pretty good idea of which line and gauge that you are referring to, but a few pics go a long way.
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Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Ctwilley
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« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2008, 12:14:57 PM »

As soon as I get the stainless project done, I'm going to study up on our air system. I think that this is doeable and would be a good thing to have for future projects. Rick, instead of getting a smaller perminant air compressor, what if we just held out and got a larger one for installation?
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emeacho
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« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2008, 12:42:45 PM »

By the way, several people are confusing the LP blow system with the LP air system.  The blower is used only for blowing the ballast tanks when near or on the surface.  THe LP air system reduces air from the HP air system and uses it for a number of purposes.

Unless they have been removed, the oats have pneumatic tool connections (quick connect and disconnect) in each compartment.  These air connections are off the service air header.  Look around in the compartments and you should find at least one per.
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Ctwilley
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« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2008, 12:51:24 PM »

That makes sense.
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