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Author Topic: School of the Boat - Emergencies (1 November 2008)  (Read 8182 times)
JTheotonio
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« on: November 01, 2008, 05:29:02 PM »

Here is a quick problem – on routine patrol on the surface a fast approaching aircraft is spotted and the captain orders an emergency dive.

In the control room, all vents are opened. Bow planes are rigged and put into a 22 deg dive.  All outboard exhaust valves are shut, engine air induction and ship’s supply outboard valves are shut or checked shut. 

Air is bleed into the boat, pressure in the boat is noted.  Stern planes are put into dive to take ship to ordered depth of 100’ with 10 degree down bubble (normal is 4-6 degree) bow buoyancy vent is shut at 30 feet, and safety is open and shut for 5 seconds.  Negative is flooded.

All bulkhead flappers are opened to resume normal ventilation.  General quarters is announced sending the crew to their battle stations.  Captain also orders a 90 degree course change turning the boat to the left, and orders the boat to full ahead.

As the boat is turning, increasing her speed, the down angle starts to rapidly increase is heading to 20 degrees down angle, but there is also now an increasing list to port, driving the bow down at an even larger down angle, which has driven the boat past 100 feet and she continues to go deeper.  The list is increasing

What is wrong?
What actions must be taken?  Name as many as you can think of
You must include the action to correct the primary cause of this situation, and an emergency method of correcting the problem. 
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John
etkfixr
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 10:48:58 PM »

Really great forum.  I'll take the first stab.  Blow bow bouyancy, full rise on the bow and stern planes and back full.  I'm thinking the list is from the rudder angle so you could zero the rudder but that would stop the turn and the bad guy could depth charge you.  You could pump from Aux 2 to Aux, moving water from port to starboard.  Another possibility is to blow the forward group for more lift forward.  Any thoughts on that?  You have to balance the added safety of the lift against having to vent it to avoid broaching later.

PS  We on the Clamagore doing her living history program started a qual program and did our first school of the boat on her this past summer.  We issued qual cards and notebooks to the guys.  The easy part is studying the Fleet Boat manuals, it is the queen mother of bitches to try to map out systems when the tourons have stolen the handles and labels.  Keep up the good work, I'm going to recomend that all of our people read this post because it is priceless.  Terry Kuhn FTG1
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Paul Farace
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 11:13:37 PM »

and some of the tourons were probably wearing dolphins...   

You'd be amazed at the crap sailors have admitted to taking aboard memorial subs!  Not all, but many more than you'd think!

 uglystupid2
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JTheotonio
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 10:01:05 AM »

Terry you got some good ideas, but did not find the problem. 

Keep looking.  Rudder angle on a fleet type submarine will not make a boat list as a nuc boat.  At this point the boat was probably doing less than 8-10 knotts.

I'm heading to the airport on way to Atlanta - so if anyone gets the answer maybe Darrin can chime in.  He knows what happened.
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 12:01:28 PM »

I'm thinking that one of the starboard vents didn't open, causing the heavy list, but that doesn't explain the rapid descent... unless the straboard vent that is stuck closed is also aft of the bridge.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 01:21:55 PM by Mark Sarsfield » Logged


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Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
emeacho
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 12:45:22 PM »

Paul sure doesn't have many good things to say about submariners, does he!   Embarrassed
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Darrin
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 06:05:46 PM »

Chief,
that is because an unnamed Torsk vet and submarine vet has threatened to remove parts from his beloved COD and bring them back to Torsk for use..... that and some of us sub vets have been known over the years to take part of their past home with them when they leave at the end of their tour, sadly that has probably happened to us more then we acutally know and blame on the kids and non sub vets.
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Darrin
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 06:07:05 PM »

Hey Terry you didn't by chance ride a 688 in pearl in the early 90's did you? because your name is familiar and I can't remember why it sounds familiar

Darrin
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etkfixr
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 08:26:18 PM »

Sorry no, I was on the 619 from 83-85 and the 676 from 86 to 88 all on the east coast.  Terry
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Darrin
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 08:55:29 PM »

Don't worry about it Terry, always good to see a new face here.

Can you please bring Tom Sprowl with ya the next time you visit here on the bbs.. He is a shipmate of a shipmate of mine on Honolulu and from what I have seen and heard about him and from him he is trying like hell to save the Clamagore and doesn't have much help down there.

Let us know what we all can do to help if anything Wink

Darrin
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etkfixr
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 09:29:23 PM »

Okay, I'm like a tree, stumped.  According to the Book OF All Knowledge, 16160, a typical 1500 ton fleet boat fully loaded on the surface draws 15' 6".  Flooding the MBTs adds 359 tons and the bow bouyancy another 32 for a total of 2,141 and a draft of 22'.  The safety adds 23 tons for a 24' draft and 55 tons in the variable tanks makes her neutrally bouyant.  So by flooding the Negative (descriptive name) we make the USS Ustafish 8 tons negatively bouyant and she submerges.  So, I can't see how any one of the #2 or #6 MBTs could be the problem, they hold about 32 and 35 tons each, enough to keep her on the surface.  I also thought that all the MBTs in a group are piped to a common vent valve.  If they have a pressure in the boat then they aren't getting water in the people tank.  So, I will wear the Dink Non-qual hat of shame and take my turn in the scullery.  Please enlighten me.  Terry

PS  This is really fun.
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Darrin
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 09:54:24 PM »

Terry,
for the most part you have the corrective actions correct.. I.E. zero the rudder and go to full rise on the bow and stern planes and use a backing bell to correct hopefully your downward decent.. You and Mark both hinted at opening the MBT vents, which is another corrective action that should help get the air out of the tank that has the problem with the vent not opening causing a bad down angle..

Now folks which tank needs to be opened and why?Huh?   

Terry, one of the first things we did during school of the boat is the layout of the tanks on a Balao so some of these folks have become REAL sharp when it comes to this one...  And you are also correct for a nuke boat when you through the rudder to the left the boat goes down and when you toss it to the right the boat raises depending on how fast you are traveling at the time (snap rolls are fun!!!)
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JTheotonio
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 10:19:27 PM »

Here I am in downtown Atlanta - $8 a drink, so I'm up in my room.  I see by the coversations you are getting close.

I will tell you this - the problem you are solving actually occurred. Keep thinking - at the price for a drink in Atlanta I may get more time on the computer.

And yes this is fun!
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2008, 10:43:31 AM »

I noticed in the manual that there are list control dampers on the No. 2 and No. 6 MBTs.  So, my guess is that the vents for either the 6a and 6c tanks or both may have gotten stuck and need to be opened.  There are emergency vent valves that can be operated for each No. 2 and No. 6 tank.

Here's what the manual reads:

"The list control dampers are located at the Y-valve outlet connections on the 10-pound blow manifold. Both list dampers are attached to a shaft that runs through the manifold chamber. The shaft is operated by a hand lever at the after end of the manifold. The handle assembly consists of a push rod at the top of the handle, a handle, a spring, a latch, a name plate, and a bracket. A connecting rod attached to the handle is equipped with a turnbuckle secured with a bolt and nut. Pressing down the pushrod releases the spring, lifting the latch, and leaving the lever free to move inboard or outboard. As the shaft turns, the list dampers are swung to shut one port, or open both ports of the Y. The movement of the lever and the attached connecting rod turns the shaft by means of an offset arm. Outboard movement of the lever causes the damper to restrict the flow of air to the starboard side. Inboard movement of the lever causes the damper to restrict the flow of air to the port side. Normal position of the damper is neutral, allowing equal flow to both sides.

List control dampers control the flow of air to main ballast tanks 2B and 2D, 6B and 6D on the port side, and to main ballast tanks 2A and 2C, 6A and 6C on the starboard side."


Here's the process for specifically correcting Tanks 6a and 6c:

1.  Open the emergency vent valve MBT No. 6A in the forward engine room on the starboard side.

2.  Open the emergency vent valve MBT No. 6C in the forward engine room on the starboard side.

3.  Open the supply flapper valve on the 10-pound MBT blow manifold.

4.  Start the low-pressure blower.

5.  Open the No. 6A-6C MBT 10-pound blow valve.

6.  Shift the list control lever on the 10-pound blow manifold to starboard position to correct a port list.

7.  Shift the list control lever to neutral position when the list is corrected.

8.  Shut the MBT 10-pound blow valves upon completion of blowing.

9.  Stop the low-pressure blower.

10.  Shut the supply flapper valve on the 10-pound blow manifold.

11.  Shut the emergency vent valve MBT No. 6C.

12.  Shut the emergency vent valve MBT No. 6A.


 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2008, 03:14:49 PM by Mark Sarsfield » Logged


Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2008, 03:19:47 PM »

Now with what Mark has provided to us (and very accurate) which tanks could cause a down angle on the boat? Remember the layout of the tanks on the boat because if the tank is in the front of the boat won't it make the bow rise instead of go down???
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