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Author Topic: School of the boat for 7 Jan 09 (Hydraulics)  (Read 9333 times)
Darrin
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« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2009, 04:00:05 PM »

Mark,
One thing to remember is get the basics running and then work on bringing the other systems back up as time comes, in the 10 years that Torsk Volunteer Association has been onboard they started with very little working and very little equipment and even fewer bunks to a boat that has almost all of her equipment back onboard again along with having most of her bunks and power running CORRECTLY through the boat and as more systems come online (RADIO) she really feels like alive again. Everytime that I go up to work on her something else is working and something else has been restored and I have been apart of making that happen, no where near as much as I would like but with a 4 hour drive 1 way it is a pretty daunting task just to work for 6-8 hours and then drive home.

For those whom have read the Torsk bbs and gone through the Activities section of the website, it looks like we have bounced around alot to get things done.... Well we have but we never forgot to get the basics working and as things popped up (Strip ships and weapons) we stopped working on the basic's (electrical and HVAC) to get pieces and parts that now are no longer available and are probably have been melted down and used in the new cars in the last 10 years.

While our hydraulics may not work (yet) we are still working on bringing other systems to life that are more benifical to the boat then making the scopes and other gear go up and down, we have not stopped trying to get our boat back to where she works and looks good.

For those whom haven't been to the Torsk website here's the addy: www.usstorsk.org
Please go look at the Activities section and see how far we truly have come, granted some of the website picture haven't been updated for a while but we truly have been blessed by a FANTASTIC crew that has gone to their limits trying to bring gear home to the boat that needed it so much. smitten   And I am guilty of not taking pictures of the many strip ships that I have done with members of the crew and without any support, looking back I wish that I had taken pictures of what we had done in JRRF for future referance but it is too late now.
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2013, 01:35:31 PM »

Time to resurrect this school topic.  For those boats that got their systems working, did you guys rip apart every last piece of hydraulic plumbing or just the packings, valves, pumps, and actuators?  My thought is to repair and replace the obvious.  Two daunting issues that we still face on the Batfish is getting a high-powered air supply working and also a high-voltage DC supply.  A few years ago I was looking into commercial DC rectifiers that could handle the voltage and loads needed for items like the IMO pumps, galley, etc.  Not cheap and quite an undertaking.  Getting sufficient power to our boat is still a much-discussed topic. We have two dedicated 100A lines running to the Batfish, but both are pretty much taxed as is.
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Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2013, 03:22:49 PM »

Mark,

IF I remember correctly the Pamp had isolated their ships hydraulic system and installed a small accumulator and hydraulic pump and then rebuilt the valves and packing for the periscopes so they could be raised and lowered. What that means for you is that you can buy a small commerical 110VAC pump and get a small accumulator and operate your systems cheaply.

Doing it cheaply 2funny that is to ass/u/me that you have no residual 40+ year old contaminated fluid in the lines and you have all of the packings onboard for all of the connections/valves in your periscope system AND you can find someone to donate the pump&accumulator&fluid and the hoses to hook them up.

Now with the Torsk, I did work on part of the hydraulics in the ATR for the rudder controls and stern planes and found that a LOT of the packings were missing and there were blanking plates installed and incredibly some of the joints were only hand tight at the pumps.. The purpose for working on the hydraulics in the ATR a few years ago was to get them to stop leaking 2funny and not to make them operational once more. Sadly we did have a 110VAC pump&accumulator donated to the Torsk and later delivered to a local volunteers house only to have it set outside in his yard for years while it was being decided if it was going to be used or not and the accumulator tank was to large to fit through the hatches and honestly I don't know what happened to that system and I seriously doubt that the volunteer has it anymore at his house.

To answer your question correctly Mark, remember that no matter what you have to have a supply and return line attached to an accumulator which serves 2 purposes and you also have to have a hydraulic pump.. Personally I would look into getting a small portable self contained hydraulic unit and then slowly drain out the old lines, replace all of the packings and seals and then slowly start pressurizing your hydraulic systems one at a time. Another thing to remember is whatever you are trying to operate has grease fittings that may or maynot have been used in years and in the case of the periscopes you may have blocks holding them in place so they don't lower with or without pressure.

Another thing to remember is once you start pressurizing your hydraulic systems they will need to be bled carefully while someone is watching the level in the accumulator (think about bleeding the brakes in a car) and then you will need to start putting drip pans under all of the valves in that system because they will start leaking again and that leads to other issues with having tourista's onboard and not a full time crew to constantly clean up the drips before they become to big.
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Darrin
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2013, 03:25:11 PM »

One question regarding air pressure, Why do you need a high pressure air system? Hydraulics don't use high pressure air at all. And most of the systems onboard can be used with 125PSI air that you can get from a commercial air compressor or two
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2013, 05:37:20 PM »

Here's what Rich wrote to me in an email:

Quote
Mark,

This is a big topic, perhaps best on the phone to start.

Simple things include replacing filters, cleaning the tank, replacing missing bleeder valves stems, hydrostatic testing, checking electrical to pumps, motor starters, motors, relief valves.  We did all of this in the early 1990s, but when we made a movie in 1996 we installed a small hydraulic unit in the C.T. because we did not have high pressure air.  The accumulator requires 1800 PSI air to work correctly.  We kept 2000 PSI air working when we wanted to for about 10 years (mostly with a shore side compressor) and used the hydraulic system a few times a year.  However, safely operating high pressure air is resource intensive.  The 1/2 air bank we used needs to be hydrostatically tested, relief valves tested, etc.  So we fell out of discipline a few years ago.  We occasionally operate the hydraulic system without the accumulator, but this is really hard on the bypass valves and IMO. 

For the past few months, we have been working on designing and installing a new Bosch/Rexeral auxiliary hydraulic pump in the pump room.  We have created replica shells for the hydraulic filters that have a fitting to attached to the output side of the pump, the intake will be from a replica cover to the hydraulic tank in control.  Power will be a portable cable draped through the boat during use to the after battery where we have three phase modern power.   No damage was done to the historic fabric, the changes can be removed and the original pieces re-installed with a wrench.  The idea is that we can use the original IMO, accumulator, etc. if we want to, but for work in drydock or an event where we do not have the resources to create high pressure air we can use the auxiliary pump.  We are hoping to have this working by the end of the year.

rich

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Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2013, 07:40:25 PM »

Very nice, Thanks Mark
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2013, 09:41:09 AM »

It sounds like Pamp is on the right path.  Once they get everything set up and running satisfactorily, we'll put our own quote together.  Maybe we can get some City of Muskogee money to get it accomplished.  Batfish hydraulic systems have been exposed to air for 30 to 40 years, due to leaks and the slow draining of the fluid into the pump room bilge.  So, a modern system using repaired plumbing for the scopes is the best way to go, in my opinion.

Batfish still has a lot of drip pans installed in various locations, but I'm sure we'll find new drips.

We also have to check out the hydraulics for the air radar mast.  It's probably tied into the scope system and there might be a possibility that it can't be isolated.  I'm just wondering where the mast control is.  I know where the radar unit sits, but I have never noticed mast controls.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 09:42:53 AM by Mark Sarsfield » Logged


Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2013, 11:51:03 AM »

Radio,

look at when the Torsk raised their "football" using a crescent hammer and some sweat
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2013, 05:17:47 PM »

Thanks.  I'll look in there, again.
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Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Mike
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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2014, 11:46:55 AM »

The only thing that can be actually found here in these school of the boats is a greater respect for the boats that we work on and the knowledge that we CAN rebuild them once more to their former glory.

A question of rigging the bow planes has brought me here (thanks, Darrin), and I agree with this comment.

There are no boats here in Columbus, GA... The nearest one is the Drum, and that is on the itinerary for this weekend before the Boy goes back to HI. However, all of this talk has me opening multiple tabs on the saturated browser and itching for something real to see.
Hats off to all who are keeping this knowledge alive – I aim to join the conversation in a more useful manner one day… Till then, I am doing my best sponge impersonation. Smiley?
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"When you're holding people's attention, I feel you must give them high-quality ingredients. They deserve nothing but your best. And if they need information, get it, cross-check it, and try to be right. Do not waste their time; do not enjoy the ego trip of being onstage."

Henry Rollins
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