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Author Topic: Electrical Survey  (Read 11740 times)
Darrin
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2010, 04:45:32 PM »

Sadly not all of the removal of the shore power box and wiring has pictures taken of it, here are the pics of what it looked like when they had the pieces parts removed.  http://www.usstorsk.org/volunteers/tww06/tww601.htm
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W5HOY
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« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2010, 05:52:08 PM »

Boy are we glad you guys are around!

That makes alot of sense that the boats we all DC and ran on DC even when using Shore Power. I suspect that was the case with Batfish. In thinking about what we saw and the notes over the past couple of years it is really making sense to decide on AC power where it is practical and put the right kinda of distribution boxes in place. With so many things missing including cable this is proving to be a lost cause I think in restoring full DC power.

Rick I will send a note out to everyone tomorrow and lets see if we can meet around the 17th?

Charlie
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Darrin
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« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2010, 09:36:13 PM »

Charlie,

To restore DC power on a submarine you need either the Generators running (with a Diesel) or her batteries onboard, the Tench class boats did not run AC power either.. The Batfish is a BALAO class boat, and the Torsk is a Tench class boat, the Torsk has had her DC system tied in the AC lines to provide lights and various other things.. We do have a battery source onboard to power the emergency lights but for us to bring up the full DC power onboard we would need to bring on BIG AC/DC converter onboard and convert the 240 VAC over to DC, we could do that IF we had 3 phase on the pier and sadly we do not have that.

If you start this job remember that this is NO easy fix and that there are little diagrams that I know of to show you the way to "fix" what is wrong with the Batfish or whatever boat you go to work on next. There are very few places that you can get WWII parts (light sockets and other small bits and pieces) Mark had I known that you needed them I would have pulled them the last strip ship here in JRRF in April.. I don't know if there are anymore WWII vintage ships here or not, the next strip ship is in October (I think) and I will be more then happy to go in and remove the pieces/parts that you and the DRUM need.

Good luck Charlie and crew, I have asked the Torsk Electricians to help out if they can... Hopefully they will get online and tell you the ins and outs of rewiring a WWII submarine

Darrin
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Darrin
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2010, 09:43:34 PM »

OOOPs I forgot to mention that our power is brought into the boat and then run to the AFT Battery well where we have 2 circuit breaker panels for our power distrobution throughout the boat. Please review the School of the Boat for more discussions in regards to power and everything else a BALAO class boat had onboard Wink

Sorry a mindless plug for a school which has closed.... dammned economy 2funny
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Darrin
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« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2010, 11:37:59 PM »

Mark, Charlie,

Email me, our electricians WANT to help you... I will give you their email addresses.. I want to help you all make your boats right once more as does the crew from the Torsk..

Be well all

Darrin
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W5HOY
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2010, 09:08:45 AM »

OK Darrin

Sounds like a good plan. I am going to try to pull together the team on the 17th of this month and put together a workable set of goals for the boat and then start sketching in some action items to support that.

I do have a question- on the individual lights we currently have the bare buld hanging out, I am 6'4" and we can see where it would be easy to burst a bulb or two along the way - what protection for the bulbs were installed (if any) during War time; just a simple cage like we see today?

thanks
Charlie
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Darrin
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2010, 09:49:36 AM »

Charlie,

The base of the mounting bracket for the light socket you should see threads on it, those are for the cages that used to cover the bulbs along with a glass cover to keep the bulb inside if it explodes. there were 2 different types of globes used, red and clear..

Darrin
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W5HOY
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2010, 02:17:51 PM »

Ok, I don't suppose you might know where to source (if at all) the globes or brackets?

Charlie
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Darrin
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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2010, 04:29:41 PM »

Of course I know where and how to get them Charlie  Wink

Just about any Maritime Administration (MARAD) whom has a warship/auxilliary ship has them, you all would prefferably want WWII vintage and those are getting harder and harder to find due to the ships being scrapped at a VERY high rate these days.

The thing I truly love about this bbs is you can spend DAYS here reviewing all of the topics and boat discussions, a year or so ago I posted how to get into MARAD and what to bring with you when you go. For you my friend here is the link to that thread

Please feel free to ask any question no matter how big or small, there are folks on here whom can help you Cool   and no we didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night either 2funny

http://www.submarinemuseums.org/forum/index.php?topic=244.0
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2010, 10:41:14 AM »

Thanks, Darrin.  Gil asked me to forward our Batfish parts wish list to him to see what you guys could do for us.  He mentioned that you guys had crafted hatch wheels before and we need one for the topside engine room hatch on the outside.

If you can ever get a hold of panel switches and light sockets, we'll be more than happy to take whatever you can spare.  You can never have enough of those.

Rick and I have talked in the past about getting a large 240VAC to DC rectifier set up in the aft battery, but they aren't cheap units.  However, a lot of the stuff that we're interested in restoring (like radios) run on AC.  It would be nice to have DC for the emergency lights, but you would also want the ability to run them if there was a power loss.  So, it's back to the bank of batteries idea.  DC, either way, also means that we could restore the ice cream maker and grills (after overhaul).

I will email you (and copy Charlie) for the Torsk electricians contact info. 


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Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Darrin
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« Reply #25 on: July 08, 2010, 11:54:26 AM »

Mark,

the Torsk isn't doing strip ships here in JRRF anymore, we have pulled everything that we can use at this point from here.. They are still doing strip ships in Philly which has some WWII vessels in it and a lot of spare parts, it makes it easier on them also to drive to Philly and not to Fort Eustis.

The DC Rectifier can be found onboard the ships in the "dead fleet", and you can also find the grill heating elements that are AC and not DC now.. we have the capability to power ours up but we don't, we have the use of the Lightship Chesapeak and the Coast Gaurd Cutter Taney and both of theirs work.(it took some work on the Chesapeaks last year by our electricians but they work as advertised)
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Mark Sarsfield
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« Reply #26 on: July 08, 2010, 01:36:38 PM »

Does Philly still have some of those old gun cruisers in port or are they gone, now?

That's good to know that there are AC replacement parts for the grills. Are they still 250V or 120V?
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Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy
Gil Bohannon
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« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2010, 08:24:41 PM »

Mark,

The last of the gun cruisers left a couple years ago - USS Des Moines. The only old ships left at Philly are the Edson, Charles F Adams, and Forrest Sherman. They are all on Donation Hold at the moment. So they are off limits.

The last couple of strip ships in Philly, we were aboard Spruance class DDG's and Ticonderoga class cruisers. Surprisingly, we still find parts aboard them, altho they are much newer that what we would like to see.

Gil
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W5HOY
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« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2010, 10:44:20 PM »

Hi All

Got a note from John Lathrop (N5TBM) - Butch who is also a HAM and electrican (industrial)is planning to come down to the Park on Saturday the 16th. Just wanted to give everyone a "heads up".

Charlie; Butch is planning to be at the boat on the 16th. I don't know if that's a good time for you. If not we will certainly have a record of his comments and reccomendations for improving the safety and the future plans (powering the galley et al ). Feel free to foreward any questions, suggestions or reccomendations to Ron or myself to pass on to him. OR, maybe you can be there.   John,,,,,N5TBM

I can not be there (I don't think) unless Rick you feel it is necessary - my plans are to still come down on Saturday - I want to make sure all the BLHA folks and Volunteers are still part of our team review of the electrical.

I indicated to John our planning scope noted in earlier post.

Just FYI
- Charlie
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W5HOY
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« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2010, 10:51:39 PM »

We had our follow up meeting last Saturday and confirmed what we saw on the 1st pass with John. We have commandered a new volunteer "Butch" who is a licensed electrican to hep bringus into some type of "code" work.

Here is the report:

MEETING NOTES- JULY 17TH 2010

OVERVIEW OF PROJECT - CHARLIE / JOHN REVIEW

OVERVIEW OF PROJECT - JOHN/BUTCH -7/16/10

A. Butch confirmed original walkthrough by John and Charlie - made notations of safety issues

Recommendations:

Remove drop cord receptacle.

Remove or re-position receptacle coming out of A/C disconnect

Reposition A/C disconnect (possible code violation)


B. Confirmed that Cathodic Protection was being handled by OGE. They will continue this service.

 
C. A/C units are on separate service to the boat. (Not to be included in Amp needs for boat)

 
D. Confirmed that we have 100A service coming into the boat.

 
E. Butch recommends that we should incase incoming line into conduit (type TBD at later date)

 
F. Discussion about moving incoming line to a "bottom" location and coming up rather from top down.

 
G. Butch has offered his labor and licence expertise. Material will need to separate issue.

 
3. GENERAL RECOMMENDATIONS:


A. Charlie recommended that for long-term safety and ease of maintaining the system that a new distribution board be located in the bottom of the boat - Rick indicated that he was on the same mind and had done some pre-investigation and there is a room about the middle of the boat that can be used as a work/electrical service are where we could locate the new board. The new board will facilitate a new distribution system where it could be safety locked. Moving forward the new system would eliminate the need for "tapping" lines without documentation, extension cords, etc., Documentation for new projects could be done and service orders completed for all other areas of the boat.


B. Currently lighting is switched to "red" for those times where overnights are planned. Officers quarters can be switched to total darkness at this time. Emergency lighting needs to be re-checked and put on A/C lines to ensure that it is on when general power to the boat is off.

C. Main disconnect of power to the boat should remain at the museum level.

D. A general review of lighting circuits etc., needs to be traced to see what switches are alive and are within code requirements. All lighting panelboards need to be re-checked for proper fusing and workability. All panels need to have a lock-out/tag-out capability to avoid prying hands.

E. Special care needs to done when running new conduit system through bulkheads. BH integrity needs to be maintained. Should system require entrance through firestop entries, new material will need to be repacked.

F. Review of Fire Safety procedures needs to be adressed.

G. Development of new work order form for electrical use on the boat.

H. Develop key contact list for electrical team for review of all electrical request


A
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