SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
Individual Submarine Boards => USS Batfish (SS-310) => Topic started by: Mark Sarsfield on May 09, 2008, 01:35:45 PM
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Once the bridge deck is laid down, should we clean and paint the smoking decks black? I know that the vets want everything sand-blasted, but maybe we can make an exception since it's a small area.
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should we clean and paint the smoking decks black
That is the very last thing I'm planning to do on the 40mm restoration project. There is no point painting until the deck is down and we're done with the gun.
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It's time for me to put my XO hat on.. :police:
The rule of thumb is horazontall serfaces black (dark grey for any of the old timeres out there) and vertical surfaces Light grey. I am looking for exact color numbers if anyone can help. That will put us into the combat paint job.
Rick
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Good. I'd like to help once you guys get to the scraping and painting phase.
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Right now the deck is #1 priority. I have commited us to having that done by next year. I want to see it completed. even if we get a little done at a time.
Rick
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I think we'll get a lot done over Memorial weekend as long as we have at least 6 of us out there doing the work.
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Good deal. I will help out where I can. We have lots of tools.
Rick
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What type of tools will we need? I'll bring some, too.
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hey guys, I split this out of the 40mm thread as it was beginning to take over.
Thanks,
MWA
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Rick, how much stuff do you have for the deck? We (Summer Guys) could probebly put alot of that down. Or there can be a dedicated group of us doing it. Just an idea, you will have us all summer.
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John, I have the supplies that I need for the deck. We will need a router or jig saw and a bech press to drill the hols and correctly make the plank joints. With that said...
I have other planes for you guys, and it does not all involve grounds work. I have 2 water tanks that need to be placed int he after battery. then we need to clean and outfit the same for a work room. I also need to clean and outfit the forward batery into a rec room. I also need to fix the bunks in the crew quarters so that they can stand 36 roudy sailors, reenactors or rugrats (take you pick). and that is just for starters. It's going to be a funs and busy summer.....
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I have about 2 more work days on the 40mm and then I'll be available all summer for deck work.
If we can get Vaughn, Ed, Travis and me all there consistently, I don't see why we can't get a huge chunk of it done this summer...if not all of it.
Just remember in July and August to keep an ice chest full of ice cold water. ;)
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You got it. I do not see why we cannot get it done this year with all the support stepping up to help.
Rick
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Rick - my wife and I will be able to devote our time to the deck beginning on June 14th.
Just an FYI
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I have about 2 more work days on the 40mm and then I'll be available all summer for deck work.
If we can get Vaughn, Ed, Travis and me all there consistently, I don't see why we can't get a huge chunk of it done this summer...if not all of it.
Just remember in July and August to keep an ice chest full of ice cold water. ;)
And sunscreen. Sunscreen is a must. ;D Especially if your Irish and burn like Dracula.
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we'll have that and I'm going to rig up some type of shade using my tarp and ropes. We will be at the mercy of the Oklahoma sun and that doesn't sound too much fun. Sunscreen/block, lots of fluid and shade.
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I has a similar idea about the tarp after baking out there for two days and it wasn't July, yet. :buck2:
I will help out with the deck as I can, but I'm behind on my to-do list for VJ Day.
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Mark A,
This is excellent. Every little bit hilps out. We are starting on byt bow and working backward. I believe the Bridge is ready for decking. Possible shad spot?
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Does Vaughn need the deck to stay off the bridge until he figures out how and where they are going to repair the rest of it?
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I will check on that one.
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Did any work on the deck get done today? Just curious.
We'll be down next Saturday to finish the 40mm (assuming Vaughn has the handles done) and then to start on the deck.
MWA
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Yes. we did get a large amount done. We were able to complete about 30% of the deck forward of the fence line. There is actually enough room to pace on brand new wood. It feels nice. Cutting the planks is slow going as each one in unique. I feel once we get into the main section it will be far easier as there will be much less fitting involved. We also have to contend with some warping issues as the wood has been setting in the weather for 3 years.
We did have a stronge turn out this weekend Rodger Hudgins, Mark Sarsfield, and jay Williams showed from the reinactors group. Ed and Carol Williams helped finish cleaning up the tree line on the west end of the property They also helped get the back room cleaned up a little and some display items done. I also want to point out the the Creek Kids filled some critcal lead positions with the C/S kids. They were able to take care of a lot of heavy lifting and moving that needed to be done.
thanks to all that showed up.
Rick
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I rather enjoyed working on the deck. It was a change of pace in a way and let me see a part of the ship I hadn't seen before. That and I need to get a hold of Rodger. Need to speak to him about some WW2 re-enacting.
But the new wood looks great on the boat. When we cut the boards the saw dust that flew up was the prettiest shade of purple. It also feels a lot more stable and sturdy under foot than the old deck. The decking and some paint and the boat will be a beautiful site to see.
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After talking with Rick some more about deck volunteers, I quickly came to the understanding that those of us that have been doing the labor on the boat are pretty much all that he has to finish the job in the future... and what a daunting task it is. We probably need to schedule one work weekend for each month (weather permitting) just to keep the momentum going. So, when shall we get together in the steamy month of July? Also, Rick had a good idea of starting at 5 a.m. and quitting by noon, so that we don't fry as much. This also minimizes the amount of time that he gets interrupted by visitors.
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My wife and I can come about every other weekend. We'll be down this upcoming weekend and every 2 weeks after that. FYI.
As for 5 AM...not for me...we can be there around 9 AM or so...rig up some shade and work.
Vaughn also comes about 2 times a month...Ed - I don't know his schedule.
If you want to plan a day, the go for it...but it will have to be the 12th or 26th or I won't be able to be there. I think Vaughn's schedule is flexible, but I'd need to call him as he doesn't check email too often.
Let me know.
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July 12th should work for me. I think the 26th I'll be in K.C.
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Now this is one of those maybe/not sure ideas but I can't sleep and thought of this. Once the new deck is laid all the way down and possibley the boat painted I thought it would be cool to put a deck gun on it. To show what it looked like during the war. Now I know this is a big task and would take a long time to get done, but I was just curious as to what you all thought as well as Rick.
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We're way ahead of you, John. :) We have several posts about that very topic and we're trying to get a 5" deck gun from San Diego sub base. My two contacts have gone into the shadows for the past few days. Keep your fingers crossed.
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We started to work on the deck today (the painting of the 40mm took a bit longer than anticipated). We were able to remove about 10 of the bolts and then my nice big screw driver broke...and ended the party. Oh well...it was hot and we were tired.
On the 28th, we'll be back, looking for some help to continue this. I'll have a tarp to rig up some shade. Would like maybe 6 people or so...2 to pull the bolts, 2 to measure and cut and 2 to replace. The more the merrier.
Come on out.
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Cordless drills with socket heads really make the job go by quickly. Bring a spare battery pack if you have one.
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I don't have a cordless, but I have 100' of extension cord that may reach down into the control room outlet.
We'll have to see...anything to speed up the process.
Rick, I'll need to get the keys for the Conning Tower hatch so I can run my extension cord into the C.R.
Thanks.
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There is one outlet in the CT above the TDC mock-up. If your cords are three-prong, there should be an adapter still up there that I bought a few months ago.
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Made some progress today in spite of the rain. First we rigged up tarps to deflect most of the rain, however, I was underneath the deck and ended up soaked. Oh well...no rain, no gain. We were able to pull of the section starboard and aft of the escape hatch. That was an effort as most of the threads were coated w/ paint. Rick and Travis removed many more bolts from the deck that will be removed next.
We put bolts thru the holes in some of the decking that was previously put down but not totally installed. We were able to add one more 2x2 before we ran out of time. I thank my wife, Ed, Brant, Rick, Mark from the board, and Travis for coming out and helping on the deck.
Used 1.5 cans of WASP killer to destroy 2 nests :buck2: ...knocked 5 bogeys out of the air 8) ...got stung once. >:( I'll be packin' next time :knuppel2:
Photos:
1. Rick - acting like he is working
2. Ed and Brandt
3. Me, Brandt and Rick (notice who is working)
4. Travis
5. What we got removed today
6. New deck (left) and old deck (right)
I'm just kidding about #3. Everyone busted their rear today.
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It does my heart good, not only to see such hard work being accomplished by a good team but to see that it includes some younger folks. Cherish those of high-school or college age and do everything possible to feed and retain their interest. They are your future.
BZ's to everyone involved!
Fred
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Nice work and thank you for sharing! I hope we can see more like this from other boats!
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Great Work Guys. Documenting work accomplished and showing what needs to be done,really helps when getting people interested in donating money.
Viejo :)
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Wow, you all got alot done today. From the group that came through, to helping people in the museum/park I didn't get to see the finished deal. (That and had to cut out early) It looks great! And rain.....pffft, this is Oklahoma, we are so used to the crazy weather. ;D
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Pictures are great. Finally get to see Rick, who I've spoke to on the phone several times. One thing that I think is important are BEFORE and AFTER photos.
Does no good to show a nice shiny Torpedo Tube inner door because we would think it's that way all the time. If you are going to add a piece of gear, say in Radio, then show the hole before or the gear that was there; or the same applies to a panel that is going for refurbishing.
We all expect to see the pristine final product, but we need to see the road that got us there.
Green Board
Rontini
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Looks good, guys. The tarp looks like it worked out pretty well, too.
It's probably time to get the pressure washer back out and spray down the newly removed sections.
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I'm putting this out a month in advance. Who can come out on August 23rd to help with the deck? We need more than two people to make this happen.
Make plans, re-arrange schedules...you got a months notice. Come on out.
Mark A.
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I don't see a reason why I can't be there. So, count me in.
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I dont think I will be able to come cause that is just after the first week of college, sorry, I would like to be there though.
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Sadly I am starting a new job in the Army and I won't have the time to make it out there to help. One day I will make it out there though. Keep up the great work folks,
Darrin
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By the way, what are you guys doing with the OLD deck? I believe the Silversides sold/is selling short pieces of her old deck. I don't see why you guys couldn't do that too, especially if it is original?
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we are going to be doing the same. One of the subvets is getting an iron to burn a logo inot each piece.
Rick
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I don't see a reason why I can't be there. So, count me in.
Mark S. - can we count on any of the other re-enactors to come out?
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Rick - as we discussed last time I was down...we were looking at the deck that has been replaced and decided we needed a game plan in order to get the wood straight.
Right now, if you stand back and look at it, it's curved and bowed and isn't lining up too well. We had talked about spacers between the boards and clamps or something in order to keep the spacing consistent and do away with the curved look that the new deck is taking.
With the August 23rd work day coming up...just thought I'd drop this on you already busy schedule. I can outline a plan for you and we can go from there if you'd like. Let me know.
Mark A.
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I know what you mean about curving wood. The new wood is thicker than the old wood. So, we can't make spacers based on the old deck. We could, however, take measurements of the new deck that has been laid down and that isn't warped. However, we are very much at the mercy of the people that drilled the bolt holes into the steel frame. Sometimes, in order to get a straight board, some of the bolt holes will be close to one edge of the board. Another trick that I use when lining up the wood is paying attention to the black paint lines on the metal from from where the previous board was.
When Roger and I lay the deck down, we correct for the warping by drilling holes on the ends and puting a bolt at each end. Then we push on it with a crow bar until it looks like it's parallel with the other boards. Then, we make the rest of the hole marks on the wood, drill them, and then bolt it back down. It's extra work, but we got a few boards to straigten out early on when we first started laying deck.
I was a little disappointed to see that one crooked board when I came back to work on the boat last month. I'm happy to say that I did not lay that board down. At the same time, I understand that there is a learning/experience curve with laying the deck down from making the right cuts to drilling the counter-sink holes to the right depth. If that board really bothers us, we can always pull it and put a new one in there.
Is the wood stacked near the shed warping? I'm guessing that randomly piling/throwing the wood on the bow and letting the sun and rain take their toll is causing the warping. We'll probably need to take more care in how was stack the wood in the future to minimize our installation work-load.
As for reenactors, Jay, Roger, and myself will be the only regulars that you see. Travis helps if he's in the area. John G. has been pitching in a lot, too. The last time that Tim K. was helping, he said that he knows guys that treat 'work' as a 4-letter word. They want to play, but they won't pitch in to help. I see this in reenacting a lot... even in past churches that I have attended. Sad.
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I'd be concerned about future cracking of the wood if you try to compensate for sweep in the wood.
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I'm sure it may be too late, but has any one explored the idea of using composite wood planking? Some of the new stuff they use for decking is out performing real wood with less maintenance.
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This is wood that started out straight and then bowed. I understand what you mean about preloading structural members, but usually we're only bending the wood back into place by no more than 1/2" - 3/4" in the middle. This is pretty tought stuff, too.
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I think I remember bringing composite wood up to Rick at some point. I don't remember all of the details, but price was probably a major factor. This Brazilian red heart wood is not cheap stuff.
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I hope this answers everyones questions.......
The wood that we have for our deck right now is a purple Brazilian Heart wood. This wood is very expensive and is not easily replaced. The wood supply that we have cost the BMF $32k. I do not know what the desicion process was that went into making this purchase. The was done befor my time. I am left with knowing that this is the only wood that we have for this deck. This is what we are using. Further more, the Cavala used this same wood for their deck and it turned out very nice. We also dixcussed the need for treating this wood before laying it down. Per the Cavala's crew they were not able to treat it. It did not accept anything that they tried to place down on it. I am afraid that the warping problems. that we see on the wood right now is the result of the wood being left out in the weather for the past 2.5 yeas. If it were layd down fresh, I do not believe that we would have this problem.
Moving on. I spoke with Dennis Gilbert a little on this issue and come to the determination that we do need to use some type of spacer. Further inspections of the plans provided to us by the Cavalla show a 1" gap between each board. I just purchased a 10x6x1 board tu use as a spacer (or gadge) for the future as we move forward. We cannot do too much about the bolt holse as we are confined to the esisting holes on the deck cross members. There are already multiple holes drilled into these cross members and i do not want to degrade the integraty of them. Otherwise we will be replacing all of the steal cross members on the boat.
I hope this helps out.
Rick
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Next Saturday...our planned work day for the deck (you didn't forget did you?) looks to have a projected high of 88 degrees. A far cry better than what we have suffered through.
I think so far we only have 3-4 coming out. Who esle can we count on?
Mark A.
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I am going to try. Depends on the race schedule. What time are we meeting up for it?
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Rick usually opens up for us at 9 AM so that is when I'm planning to show up.
So far, this is the "for sure" list of people showing up this Saturday:
Mark S., Ed, Brandt, Me & my wife. I'm pretty sure Rick will help when he can.
Hope others can make it out.
Mark A.
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This will pretty much be it. We'll do what we can.
It sounds like there is a glimmer of hope regarding paint and sandblasting donations to the boat. Rick mentioned to me last Thursday over lunch that he would like to aim for November to shut the museum down and get all of this banged out, if the stars align properly. So, my question is should we modify our approach and just keep pulling old wood for the next few months? We'll only leave in place the wood that is needed to support the plywood walk way and then in late October we could rip it all off.
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So, my question is should we modify our approach and just keep pulling old wood for the next few months? We'll only leave in place the wood that is needed to support the plywood walk way and then in late October we could rip it all off.
That's a good question. I guess alot depends on what Rick thinks...and what is planned for the October work week.
Rick, what do you think?
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I still have some discussions that need to be made with Bradley. he has a really good idea for a fund raiser to help paint the boat. I need to finalize some of these planes before saying no wood. I do think, for this weekend, we concentrate on pulling more of the deck as we have been. we are in a real good position to pull all the way back to the aft end of the boat on the starbord side.
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It definitely won't hurt anything to keep pulling wood as long as there is a walkway. It reduces the number of places that he wasps, hornets, yellow jackets, et al make a home. Speaking of which, there's a nasty yellow jacket nest near the engine room hatch.
Anyway, if we keep pulling wood, we somehow need to keep track of where the various hatches are located. Especially after the support beams get blasted and painted. Unless, we happen to have a deck plan showing all of the hatch locations.
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I think I have a volunteer on this one......
Rick
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Let me know how the Deck work went please.
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BZ to Ed, Brandt, Rick and my wife for surviving the deluge this AM before and during deck removal...and then suffering in the heat and humidity once the sun came out.
We got all the deck from the forward entry aft and starboard to the bridge removed.
Here are some photos.
Mark A.
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Gotta love the cans and cans of wasp spray. Good job to all of you and thanks again for the photos Mark.
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It is great to se you guys doing it the right way and putting down wood. The Drum replaced their wood with galvanized steel channel and every where it was welded is rusting and it is going to be almost impossible to sand blast effectively so in about ten more years it will have to be removed and redone including all the support framing.
Great job, keep the faith
Tom Bowser
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Very nice work. Sorry I couldn't be there after all. :(
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Gotta love the cans and cans of wasp spray.
I had 4 partial cans and 4 full cans. I knocked down 2 huge nests again...one with the nasty red wasps. I had to give that one both barrels.
Other wasps stayed put until it stopped raining and the sun came out.
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let me clairify a little on this one. I spent about 30 minutes out there and threw 3 or 4 old planks of wood off the deck. All the credit goes to my volunteers for their hard work.
I said it befor and I will say it again. I cannot do this without you all...
I also want to give MarkA a special thank you for posting a picture of the special modification made to the forward deck. The Forward Tent Assembly. :2funny:
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The Forward Tent Assembly
You can't qualify unless you can assemble one in between downpours. :D ;) ;D
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We have scheduled another deck work day on Saturday, Sept. 20th.
Come on out.
Mark A.
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I'll be out of town that weekend and the next. Sorry.
I don't know what plans the other reenactors have. Roger, Correy, and I have been trying to get a flame under their butts to come out and help on occassion.
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Roger, Correy, and I have been trying to get a flame under their butts to come out and help on occassion.
Yes, I saw your post on the BLHA board and I appreciate the effort. Have they given you any reason why they won't come out...other than for the special events you guys do? I realize that some live far off and can't make it too often...but I would hope that they could come out and help some with the deck a little more often. Oh well...keep after them and maybe they'll get the bug too.
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Of the many emails that get sent out, few people ever reply back unless it's a real topic of interest. I assume that they read most of the messages or at least glance over them.
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Well, I'll keep including you and Correy on the emails I send out and maybe you guys can forward them on. The farther aft we go...the hard it's going to be as there is a bunch of piping under the deck...and our head room decreases drastically...which puts us in closer proximity to the wasps.
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Yeah. I was crawling under the deck about 20 feet forward of the ATR stairwell. It was definitely a low ceiling. About 10 feet forward of that point Correy found a nice yellow jacket nest next to the engine room hatch. They came out to greet him, but he got away. Once I got settled under there, it really wasn't too bad. It's just aft of the bridge that looks like it would be a real pain... which brings me to another thought...
I have an idea for ripping up the deck that I wanted to run by you. What if we ran a circular saw across the planks along the sides of each cross support? Then, we could remove the little pieces of wood that are still bolted down after the fact at a more liesurely pace - even one person could work on it without needing any real back-up. A lot of deck can be removed in a short period of time. They could even sand blast the boat if some of the wood pieces were still bolted down. The blasters would make quick work of the rotted pine and then you would just have to remove the bolts before painting everything. Obviously, the walkway boards would be the last to go. We'd also have to record where all of the deck hatches are located (approximatley) as we went along. Let me know your thoughts.
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Hey, that's a good idea...just have to be careful where we cut so we don't cut anything important and don't damage the blade. That sure would make getting those remaining aft-of-the-bridge board stubs that still remain...removed a lot easier. I hope that made sense.
I'm for it if Rick doesn't care.
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We definitely need to watch for old cables and radio coax before we make each cut. Also, wasp patrol will help, too. Give them a healthy dose of poison before ripping down their homes. Maybe we should get some smoke grenades. :) Let me know what Rick thinks.
Speaking of which, I'd like to follow two chains of command. If a project is more reenactor related, I'll go through Correy, but if it's labor/restoration related, then I'd like to go through you.
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Speaking of which, I'd like to follow two chains of command. If a project is more reenactor related, I'll go through Correy, but if it's labor/restoration related, then I'd like to go through you.
I've asked Rick about this in an email but have yet to hear back. I suggested something similar and some way to track who is working on what. No need to double up on man-power unless it's a big project. This is all new to me and I'm just trying to figure it out. I'm sure Rick will clarify.
As for cutting the deck...I'll let you know, but I hope Rick will respond to this thread.
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I am not against cuttng the deck at all. Wwe will be cutting around the holes anyway. further information, I will have The ROTC kids out again on the 25th.. I am going to have them remove more of the deck. the did a realy good job of it last time
Rick
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Hook me up with a circular saw this Saturday and I'll make short work of that deck.
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Do we need a finger count afterwards? ;)
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From what I have been told by those on Torsk who did the deck work aft and forward that cutting the wood at the stringer was the easiest and quickest way to get the old deck up and IF your deck is teak you may want to consider cutting the wood down to 6" pieces and selling them as plaques so you and your volunteer organization can do more projects (after the new deck is down of course or if you run out of money to finish all of your deck)
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Here are I hope the pics of the deck work being done in '99 to show infact cutting the wood at the stringers for ease
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Great minds think alike. Our current wood is crappy, rotted pine 2x4's turned itno 2x2's. A circular saw will make short work of them. We plan on selling pieces of wood, but it depends on the condition of a given board. In the short term, I'm going to have the helper kids toss the wood over the railing or through the limber holes - whichever is easier for them. It might not be a bad idea to have another saw down on the ground to cut the pieces up and make it easier to use a wheel barrow to haul them to the shed or wherever.
Hopefully, I still have all 10 fingers when it's all said and done. Do we have 2x6's that we could lay down/clamp down in certain areas after the wood is pulled?
I saw an email from Bradley Wynn stating that blasting and painting would be a 6-month project. Is that what the current projection is, Rick? Drum seems to be making faster headway than that with a small group of volunteers. If we get a professional crew out there, it would be a lot faster.
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this big issue here is raising $$$$...
If I had $20k for the deck taht would be a week project. If I had $160 for the paint that would tak 1 mo tops. It is my experience that getting all of the papperwork, money collections, and political dancing done takes up 90% of the time in any porject. Bradley is working hard and I am trying my best to accomodate him. He has a good drive and thinks just like I do. I think this can be don.
Rick
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Okay. I wasn't slinging mud or anything. I was just curious as to what we think is realistic.
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and thinks just like I do
oh no.... :D
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Well, Vaughn won't be here this Saturday but said he'd come out on the 20th.
So I'm going to fix the damage paint on the 40mm and work on the deck. Am still hoping to visit w/ Shawn if he makes it...I've not heard anything in 2 weeks...so we'll see.
Will be at the boat around 9 am this Saturday. I think Mark S. is coming...maybe JohnG. We can at least take a look at the Aft Battery if we need a break from our lumberjack duties.
Mark A.
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I am disapointed to hear about Vaugh. I will be here at 0900. It does look like we have a possibility for rain tomorrow. This may be a good day for the after Battery. We will play it by ear.
Rick
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I have a last-minute change of plans. I managed to finally sell my '98 Chrysler yesterday morning and my van is not out of the shop, yet. It needed a new radiator and I was hoping that it would have been done by today. Mechanic hopes to have it done tomorrow afternoon or Monday for sure. So, I'm going to work on the boat on Saturday, Sep. 13, even if I'm the only guy there (other than Rick). I just need someone to leave a circular saw in the FTR for me to use.
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Just an FYI. I will be MIA for BALOO Training. (cub scout thing). Ed Williams has been nice enough to fill in for me.
thank you Ed
Rick
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That's a new one to me. Is it a weekend thing?
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Are you talking about tomorrow, Rick, or next Saturday?
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The BALOO training is a class for cub scout leaders specificly for camp outs. It is supposed to make more capable of handleing (in m case) 9 young boys on an overnight campout. I am not sure what all I will learn, but I am looking ofrward to it. These kind of classes do help out when dealing with kids at the boat as well as my den of little deamons..... I mean angles...... :angel:
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I forgot to mention that this will be next weekend Sep 13
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Okay. So, should I not bother coming down to the boat that weekend?
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The BALOO training is a class for cub scout leaders specificly for camp outs. It is supposed to make more capable of handleing (in m case) 9 young boys on an overnight campout. I am not sure what all I will learn, but I am looking ofrward to it. These kind of classes do help out when dealing with kids at the boat as well as my den of little deamons..... I mean angles...... :angel:
Do teach me and Joseph these tricks for next summer. We truly had Mommies little dev....angels that one day. All 80 of them. :-\
Almost made me never want to have kids... :knuppel2:
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So, what all got accomplished this past Saturday?
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Sorry I couldn't show. Had to go to Texas. Between this racing and the female going psycho it's hard to get anything done much less get out to the boat. Wow, I sound like I am 40. lol
So ya, what all got done?
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It was a slow day. My wife and I got the 40mm and railing painted after the damage.
We did a little bit of weeding around the SHARK Memorial.
Mainly we worked in the AFT Battery. Got 3 wheel barrow loads of junk thrown away, then tried to segregate it. We piled most of the junk near the ladder and piled all the goodies to look at along the port side. Most of what is left is the old duct work Vaughn removed when he put in the A/C unit. It's all junk, but more than my wife and I could man-handle up out of the battery...up the crew's mess hatch and then over to the dumpster.
Rick said he's got some younger kids coming that can get some of that.
No deck pulled. I figured "why should I have all the fun" :-\
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Roger that. It sounds like it's a good start on the junk heap down there. We reinstalled the ladder for the gun access hatch in the con during our last event. So, that's one less item getting in the way in the Aft Battery. We also replaced some bolts on the crew's mess ladder that were too long or missing all together. Tim Katzung graciously donated the hardware for the ladders.
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This is kind of off topic, but last time i was in the after battery, I noticed that there were quite abit of giant copper strip that ran into the battery room that had been cut off and thrown on the floor. Since they cannot be re-attached, and copper is worht so much right now, I though it might be a good way to help raise some money for the Batfish would be to sell the copper wiring, just an idea.
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Now thats why you are in college! ;D There ya go Rick, some quick, easy, legit money.
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Before we sell the wire, let's see if some of the reenactors need it for their battery project. They plan on making mock batteries in the forward battery hold.
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Back to the deck subject, with the 2 to 7 inches of rain on its way this weekend from Ike, I'm going to decline coming down to the boat to work on Saturday. My next attempt will be early Oct. or the first day of our boat work week, the 19th.
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Had 5 out today: me, my wife, Sam Whitley, Stephen (new guy) & Rick. We got the remaining boards by the forward entrance off (see before and after pics), plus we got the boards to starboard of the bridge removed. Amazing how it goes when you have numbers.
Will be back out on the 4th...
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I haven't gone through all of these postings yet so I'm not sure if anyone knows this yet but I have a copy of the original COMSUBPAC orders from late 1944 describing all of the colors in detail, where they should be painted, how, why, ect.ect. It's several pages long but addresses all paint from top to bottom. If anybody wants a copy, let me know and I'll copy it for you.
Correy
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GREAT Job on the fwd deck, it is starting to look good, I forgot to post the pics of Torsk's that is going down also right now (these were taken yesterday afternoon after the work stopped for the day) Hopefully later tonight I will get them posted.
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Correy,
I remember Rick getting a copy of the paint scheme. Hopefully, he and Bradley are making headway with blasting and painting for this fall.
Mark A.,
The 4th looks good to me. I'll see you then.
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There is an update on Torsk's fwd deck work and pic to go with it, I can't wait to see your deck go back on also and hopefully it won't be as long as ours was off ;)
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IF possible the next time you all work on your deck can you possibly get me the sizes from the markers for the salvage air connections please (the plates) ours have long since gone missing and I would like to have them made and then put them in our deck where they belong once more. Thank you
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Darrin - I'd love to...but I don't know what you are talking about. Remember, I'm non-military. If you can get me photos or something of what to look for, I can get those next time I'm down.
Mark
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No problem Mark, BTW this one of the things that we are teaching on school of the boat right now
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We pulled those off last week...I'll locate them, take some photos and dimensions for you.
I'd like to take the school of the boat, but being in graduate school and up to 12:30 am every night...I don't have much time for what I do. Maybe when you get done, you can run it again for new board members and people like me that played hooky.
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That my friend will be up to Lance to archive the school of the boats as we go and hopefully make a folder on the bbs for them to go that way as time goes by so that all can use them for whatever they need.
Thank you for digging them out for me and taking a pic and dimentions of them, IF you go to the HNSA site and look under the air system you will find out where they go when you put them back on. ;)
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I couldn't remember if I sent a copy to Rick or not. It has two different schemes on it so you have to know which one to pick. It also has sketches that illustrate exactly where each color goes and the paint number for each different color. It's a wealth of info. When we get to the painting part, I have some good ideas on how to get it looking exactly like she did, at least paint wise.
Oh and completely non-related, in officer's row and the various heads, if we can remove all of the mirrors, I'll take them to work and get the guys in the polishing booth to shine them up and put a scratch resistant coting on them for us since you can hardly see through some of them anymore. We polish some of our lip-skin rings for our engine cowlings and it wouldn't be any trouble to have them polish a few extra pieces of metal one day.
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Correy - are you going to be able to make it on the 4th or 18th?
I can assist you getting those mirrors down on either (or both) of those days.
Let me know.
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Can't do the 18th, I'm going to be doing a program for about 2000 school kids.
The 4th may be doeable though.
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Good deal...hope to see you then. We may end up with about 6 on the 4th then.
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Unfortunately, my wife just smacked me on the back of the head and reminded me that we have a formal dinner to go to the afternoon of the 4th. :(
I guess, yet again, I won't be able to attend. STINK! If I have to come out there by myself, I'll be out there to help with the deck eventually.
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Well, my plans for the morning of the 4th got cancelled so I'll see you all at the boat. :)
Roger and I will be coming together but will both have to leave at about 2.
Rick, I have some things for you and need to update you about the education day.
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So I guess you're still stuck going to the formal dinner? :buck2:
Glad to have you and Roger out. We may have about 7-8 then.
2 pm is no problem...we usually shut down between 2 and 3 anyway.
See you tomorrow.
Mark
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Yeah I'm still going unless I can fake an illness lol. Hmmmm???
I assume everyone meets at around 10? I guess we'll see you then.
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Yeah I'm still going unless I can fake an illness
:'( I'm sorry :D
Rick usually opens at 9 AM for us so I plan for then. I think Stephen will be there around 10. Not sure about Mark S. or Sam. I think last time Sam was there around 9:30 or so.
See ya tomorrow.
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I'll be there at 9 am sharp...maybe a little before. I have a small project to finish up and then I'll be joining you all on the deck...or lack thereof. ;)
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October 4 work day.
Had a good turn out. My thanks to Sam, Leilani, Stephen, Mark S., Tim, Roger & Correy for coming out today. Here is a run down of what got done.
Tim is working to fix the crews quarters. There is a photo of his work in progress. Correy I think finished the cold storage project and was taking down some stainless steel items from officers country. Sam, Stephen, Mark S. and Roger worked on getting more deck removed. Leilani gave the crape mertles (sp?) some TLC and look much better. I began working on prepping the forward supports. Really need to get the 40 locked down as more scraping has occurred since our last visit. Anway, I've posted a few photos of our activities. Special thanks to Rick for buying us mugs some pizza.
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Thank you for digging them out for me and taking a pic and dimentions of them
Darrin - have them in my garage. I will clean them up and take photos and measurements for you in the next couple of days.
Mark
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Thanks Mark,
was underneth the deck on Torsk this morning and yesterday and (not to mention above the deck) and I can only hope that we can fabricate them all to be able to go back in the deck where they belong.
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kind of off topic, but what is goin on in the crews berthing?
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Tim Katzung created a bunch of rack support poles from scratch, welded them, painted them, and installed them. They aren't 100% by the book, but they are way better than the wooden posts that used to be in there.
Currently, he is taking rack frames home and repainting them. Three of them will be modified in width so that they don't interfere with the door to the crew's mess opening into the berthing area anymore.
Overall, I was very impressed with the work and progress that he has made and I told him that he'd get 10 BZ's from me... if he had an account on here.
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God we have such a great team of volunteers!!! THANKS TIM!!
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Back to the deck, we would have ripped off a lot more of it, but we're at the point where we have to move the walkway to the port side. Rick has to make a ramp of sorts to go over the A/C units, so that they don't get damaged. Once that is done, the rest of the deck can be ripped up with a saw in probably an hour tops.
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But that doesn't include removing the bolts, does it? The circular saw did get a bunch of deck up, but Roger and Stephen were struggling with removing the bolts that were keeping the non-cut deck still attached.
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Correct. That is only for removing the bulk of the wood. Sam took the approach of chiseling the remaining wood once it was cut and leaving the bolts behind for later. He was making pretty good progreess with most of the deck out of the way. If we cut up most of the deck, just about anyone with some free time can remove bolts at their leisure without having to crouch under the deck.
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OK, cool. Getting those bolts out will one day need to be a priority. With 40+ kids there in 2 weeks, maybe we can get some cheap labor and get a ton of those out.
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My thoughts exactly. ;) It's good "slave" labor.
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a sawzall with a sharp blade (and spares just in case) and a pair of pliers have been known to make QUICK work of those bolts on the stringers ;)
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Ok, I have to say this....
I have seen the ROTC kids out there twice now and wow. :o Talk about ripping up alot of wood and pulling alot of bolts. They even moved the big...thing...in the aft battery room that me and Josiah (big indian from summer) couldn't lift. We definately come out on top.
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We're wanting to keep the brass bolts. The carriage bolts we're eliminating, since they are usually pretty rusted out.
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I hate carriage bolts. They are a pain to get out. We need a wizard to come out and POOF! them away.
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Yes the Cold Stores Locker is now open for display with a grate over the hatch. You can now look down and see part of the final display. I say "part" because I'm trying to locate a milk can, a couple of cheese boxes, and a few other items to finish it out.
As far as the stainless panels go, Mark S. and I removed half of them down officer's row to get them polished. For those of you that don't know, we uncovered some truely remarkable things that Rick and I are in the process of trying to preserve for future generations. Apparently, the panels were never removed during the boats service. On the back of each of the panels is the original grease pencil marks that were made during the building. On the walls themselves, we found what we beileve are weight calculations and the original grease pencil marks made by the inspector during his inspection of the rivets. We can see which ones didn't pass and they still have his signature next to the "Rejected" tag. As this is a forgotten piece of the boat's history, we're doing what we can to preserve what we found. On the panels, great care is being taken to polish one side while preserving the back. It's a challange.
Also, we removed the mirrors from the officer's country. I can't work miricles in regards to some of the large dents and deep scratches, but I can polish the smaller ones out. The goal is to take them back to what they looked like 60 years ago.
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IF possible the next time you all work on your deck can you possibly get me the sizes from the markers for the salvage air connections please (the plates) ours have long since gone missing and I would like to have them made and then put them in our deck where they belong once more. Thank you
Darrin - I have 3 of them in my garage:
Salvage Air - Control Room - Low
Salvage Air - Control Room - High
Salvage Air - Officers Quarters - High
They are all different sizes. Do you need one, two, all of them?
Also, do you want them sent to your email or posted here?
Let me now and I'll get them cleaned up, measured, photographed and sent to you.
Mark
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Mark,
PLEASE post all of them with the dimensions on here please.. I honestly didn't know that they were different dimmesions between the 3 that you have and it would be good to show ALL who have rebuilt their decks over the years what they are supposed to STILL have topside for their salvage air connection data plates.
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Darrin - slow but sure...
I finally got around tonight to cleaning up all 3 plates. I will photograph them this weekend and provide measurements.
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Take your time Mark, and Thank you for doing that for ALL of us restoring our boats so that we can be more correct and hopefully get those systems to work once more also.
Darrin
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If any of you are going to use a professional machine shop, I might be of some help. If you have a programable mill, I could use a laser tracker and scan it in. Then you could have an .igs, .sa, .xml, or .txt file that you could use to plug the coordinates into an automated mill. No mess, no fuss, just easy. It'll save you a lot of time and money and they'll be within .001" of the original. That's what I did before I took my current job at NORDAM. It's completely up to you guys though.
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Thanks Corey, I will ask those who are going to remanufacture them what kind of machines that they are going to be using. :)
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I went ahead and posted a little blurp about it in the submarine museum discussion area. It's under reverse engineering.
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It is not often that I get to be the first one to post on our week end success.
I would like to thank the Navy league and sea cadets for showing up. Damn hard workers for kids aged 11- 17, Mark an Leilani Allen, Mark Sarsfiel, Tim Katzen. the Muskogee Swat Team, new commer Brad (still learning you last name) and John (don't get run over again) Goade. and all the otheres that I missed. The Batfish Foundatin and Loves Bottleing provide lunch for everyone.
We were able tu successfully get most of the crews bunks loaded. It is starting look good again. It sure is nice to be able to open and close those doors on the CQ. The Sea Cadets had the honor of being the first to test them out. We have all thumbs up. The w Female cruts held down the FTR. for us. Mark Allen and the Swat Team took on preping the rails for new wood. we are completed to the after end of the sail, Starbord side. We also moved our pathway to the port side so we can put most of our efforst onto the starbord sid and get rid of that stinkin' path way. We also were able to get more deck pulled up. We are now have it all open up on the starboard side to half wad wone the after deck. I am looking to start laying down more deck as soon as possible. the first portions of the stainless steal have been hung in the OC and it looks great. You can actually see yourself in the walls again.
Special thanks go to Dennis Gilbert. Dennis was a great source of inspiration, and knowlage for us all. I think everyone got at least one good story. I know I have several. I also learned that not all submariners know how to swim.... :)
Thank you all for you help. I look forward to seeing things continue moving along. Everyone that hase them. Please post pictures.
Rick
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Sounds like a lot got done. Great news.
Swimming was overrated in submarines. Water was too deep to do a lot of treading anyway. You it's like the line from Butch Cassiday and the Sundance Kid when Butch said he couldn't swim. "Hell the fall will probably kill you anyway!"
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It was a good day. I couldn't be out on the boat but inside there were tons of people all day. One of the busiest days I have seen in a while. The chicken was awesome too!
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Sounds like a great time. Cheers to the Batfish crew for your efforts!
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I really wish I could have been there guys, but i had come to the area the previous weekend, and could not afford the gas back down there, I might be able to come up in a few weeks though.
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John,
Stop getting run over and I will let you play..... ;D You were a big help.
Travis.
Gas is going down. By my estimates you can go about 40% farther on your gas money. That should give you at least one trop to the boat..... ;D
Come down when you can. You are always welcome.
Rick
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is a before and after pic of the deck work don on the weekend of the 17-18. Thank you again for all involved. There are too many for my feeble mind to remember. Thank you Dennis for the pics....
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lookin real good there folks :) :)
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I have a silly question for you Batfish guys, how old is the deck you are replacing? Has it ever been replaced since it became a museum boat?
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it is at least 15 years old. It is a combination fo ripped 2x6 pine ceder and teak. Nothing is standard other then the general deterioration of the deck as a whole. I cannot wait to start getting the new stuff down and having the deck open again
Rick
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Brad, Brandt and I showed up today and did a little deck work. Cut a few boards to length until Brandt showed up, then we were actually successful in installing 3 of the 16' boards. They are straight and evenly spaced and by trial and error found a system that works really well. We got it down to about 1 board per hour where each board (warped as they are) has 8 bolts to drill, countersink and then tighten.
Sorry - I forgot my camera today, maybe Rick can take a few photos of our start at putting the deck down.
It also ended up being rather warm for November and the bogey's (wasps) were thick.
Mark
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It's crazy how long it takes to put the wood down. My friends are like, "Whats so hard, drill and bolt." I think they need to come out and see how it's done. But they aren't Batfish tough. 8)
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I'd rather go slow and get it right. The deck forward that was previously installed is too wavy and may end up having to be re-done.
We took our time and did it right and the boards are as straight as you're going to get them and they are evenly spaced. At this rate it will take until 2012 to get the current deck off and the new deck on...but it's being done right and will look good when we are done.
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Mark,
remember to go slow and do it right the first time or you and your crew will be pullling it back up to do it right once more so it will be right.. and the second time that the crew has to put it down they tend to be a LITTLE mad :tickedoff:
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It's all trial and error. fortunaetly we have a new volunteer/consultant on board that has ezperience with this type of stuff. I figure by the time we get to the after end we will be experts and can hire ourselves out as a professional decking crew and start a fund raisor for our next big job. Paint....... :uglystupid2:
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Rick,
As we continue to get the deck down, will you save any scrap that you have? Preferably any pieces that have the outside surfaces and that are at least 6" long. The reason why is that I'm going to run several tests on the wood's ability to hold paint...or not hold paint as the case may be. I'm going to test out several different kinds of paint, including a two part epoxy paint that's guaranteed to stick to anything. I'm going to paint several pieces with several different brands, leave them outside, and see if we can get one that holds. Teak is almost the same density as Brazilian Purple Heart. If they could get lead based paint to hold, we should be able to find an alternative.
Correy
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I thought we were just going to let the wood age, and turn the dark brown.
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So far, the new wood just bleaches to a light gray color.
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corry,
I am in agreement to this. I cannot say what you will get as I will be streaching this as far as I can.
Rick
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Not to mention, if the wood is left untreated, it will deteriorate in the Oklahoma elements a lot faster than if it was protected.
I think that if we keep it conditioned and painted (with the correct paint) it should last twice as long as if it's exposed to the elements. I don't want any of us to have to do this again in a year or 10 years. Let's make it last. Besides, we may have to wait a couple of months for the test to be complete.
I have several different types of paints set up. My plan is to paint a piece with each type and subject them to the Oklahoma seasons. I'll continuously freeze them while wet and then warm them to 120 degrees in high humidity over the following month to simulate a rapid changing of the seasons. Meanwhile, while it's at it's hottest and coldest states (the weakest times of the paint), I'll take a piece of sand paper and rub it a couple of times to simulate yearly wear. After a month of doing this, we'll see how each type of paint stands up to the test.
It's the same basic test done on countless other materials just modified for our deck.
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You might be able to speed up the process for winter testing by soaking the wood in water to simulate rain, then put it in a freezer for the winter months to see if the wood cracks. That would be good for the winter months
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put the wood on a heat lamp too - simulate rain, sun, and cold
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The wood topside should be painted black and if you all want I can get the paint numbers from Torsk because that paint is supposed to last for quite a while instead of a few years before being repainted.
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Corry,
I would also like to test a piece untreated. Just to see what will happen. Remember this wood has already been sitting in the elements for 3 years unprotected. I agree with your sentiment on making this last as long as we can.
Torsk guys.
We are going with the 2 tone grey and black paint scheme necessary used in WWII. Any help in paint numbers or collor identifiers ect would be very helpful.
Rick
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Rick,
I will call one of our experts later tonight and get the paint numbers and manufacture's name and hopefully a phone number on them also
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Paint sucks. When you paint, you have to re-paint once it starts looking like crap. Too bad some big company like Line-X who does those nice spray-in truck bed liners isn't interested in something like this. LOL
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Hmmm......
Rick, we have a local Line-X.
"Hey Mr. PR guy! We got a job for you!" ;D ;)
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I'd like the deck painted black too...but mostly I'd like the old deck removed and the new deck put on.
I'll be there the 15th if anyone wants to come help.
Mark
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ask and you shall recieve, TorskDoc is going to hook you up
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For all the other boats that are using the same kind of wood. I'll share the results with everyone on the board. There's no sense in reinventing the wheel.
As far as the tests are concerned, our lab at work has everything we need including large freezers kept at -30 deg. F and large ovens kept at 120 deg F. What I'm going to do is soak the wood over night every night to simulate rain and snow. I'll then freeze the wet blocks in the mornings. The water soaked into the wood will expand and if the wood (and paint) is going to crack, that's when it'll happen. It won't take but an hour to freeze it solid but in the afternoons I'll move them into the oven. As the ice melts, it will give the wood a wet cooking, simulating a rain soaked deck in the summer. As the water evaporates, you'll get the simulated hot dry weeks in August. The heat should weaken the paint and if it's going to come off after being loosened, that's when it's going to happen. Going from one extreme to the other in such short time periods will severly stress the wood and paint. We can put the "deck" through both harsh "seasons" in the course of a day.
Correy
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Correy,
while that is great that you are looking at all of the seasons you aren't taking into account the amount of traffic topside.... that in it self makes a HUGE difference to how paint holds up regardless of what temp it is at or how wet it is...
Take the UH-60, the General's bird was always painted and waxed but a regular bird that worked it's arse off you knew it the second you opened the doors.. it doesn't matter how much paint the crew chief puts down it is the amount of traffic that ultimately decides how many times you will have to paint and or replace the materials that you are walking on..
In submarine terms... on a sea going 688 I could paint it every couple of months to make it look good BUT IF we were not going to sea much the paint could last for months and even a year before I had to repaint her hull..
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Been there Done that.
DON'T Re-invent the wheel here. Torsk has had the same problems and there are some work arounds. From what I understand your getting purple heart. It's a good HARD Stable wood, with a tight grain. It WILL be hard to get paint to stick to it BUT the MACRO EPOXY Primer will take care of that. As for the wood aging it WILL turn Gray NOT brown or black.
Probably best thing to do with the superstructure after repairs to steel is:
1.) Use a 2 part MACRO EPOXY Primer on steel and wood. This stuff is super thin and gets in UNDER rust, loose paint, etc. and seals it in, encapsulating it.
Only drawback is it takes 24 hours to set up and dry. Sherwin Williams makes it. It's a marine painting system and the topcoat is vinyl (YUK!!! :tickedoff: :tickedoff:)
2.) Get a good Alkyd Enamel (Rustoleum or Equiv.) for Gray. We've been using Rustoleum Ocean Gray and Rustoleum Semi Gloss Black. Make sure it's a Blue Back not a Brown Black. Or if International Paint has a Marine Epoxy that they are willing to donate or even bring down to Rustoleum prices, use that. The Epoxy will last one hell of a lot longer than an alkyd, which lasts a hell of a lot longer than a vinyl.
3.) Fade in the turn of the superstructure edge. NO HARD EDGE. Use a sprayer and feather edge it. Make it so that when someone looks straight down over it they DO NOT SEE GRAY.
When using the topcoat for the First Time, put down TWO COATS! Let the Stuff set up at least 4 hours between coats (even in the OKLA Summers). With the Gray and Black on the vertical surfaces of the superstructure it will need touch up or a re-coat in 5-6 years. The horizontals (deck) will require every two-three years. Your deck is similar in structure to ours in that it's a mix and the paint wears off faster than it fades, checks, cracks, peels, etc. HOWEVER We DON'T have a fenced in section of plywood and DO allow visitors to roam all over deck. We do keep a section (2ft across) the length of the boat for those who prefer high-heels (personally you better be wearing a skirt with those heels) but I'd rather have the museum require them to wear flats on the boat. You'd probably be better off keeping the fenced in area. Kids just LOVE to climb on the wire ropes and swing, and it's a looooonnnnnng way down to hard ground. :'( :'( Although some adults/parents are just as bad if not worse.
It doesn't matter what kind of topcoat you use on the deck due to visitor wear and the deck cooking in the sun. Wear and deterioration is accelerated as it's a horizontal surface. So be prepared to paint every two years or so. It takes me about 8 hours to paint the deck from stem to stern with a roller after it's been run over with a scraper and a needle gun. Don't worry about the sides and the bottom of the deck boards too much. The initial coats will be sufficient for about eight-ten years. It doesn't get as much direct sun, rain, snow, etc as the ttop. TWO good coats at first with a re-coat every two-three years is sufficient.
In the last ten years we've only had to paint the sail TWICE. And that's mainly from interior deterioration (backside pinholes) and pigeon crap. Bird Crap is your biggest problem as far as paint holding up. If you've got a major pigeon problem, you may end up having to paint every two years instead of 5 on the vertical surfaces.
Sideboard Numbers 18" High 12" across with a 4" thickness. White with Black offset of 2" on the right side and lower diagonals and bottoms. Note: Those numbers are what I remember (I'll let Darrin tell you how feeble minded you can get when you hit 53! ???) but they are bound to be off. If your numbers look good take a metal punch and make marks at each corner. When you get to the point where you are ready to paint in the numbers, just tape off from punch mark to punch mark, and go to town.
If you have a pot sprayer it goes a lot faster. AND you can get places that rollers and brushes can't.
Have fun, I DON'T ENVY you guys one bit. AND FOR GAWDS SAKE DON'T PAINT ANY TEETH ON HER!!! :uglystupid2:
Doc
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Thanks Doc,
Now what he didn't tell you about his "feeble" mind at age 53 is that he has forgotten more about a diesel boat then I have ever learned and I qualified submarines on a 688 and he was qualified 423 because of some unnamed ahole TM ::) Honestly Doc is a TRUE EXPERT when it comes to these boats and I wouldn't trade him for any amount of money ;) not to mention that he has done more to make Torsk look good then most will ever know and I wouldn't know what to do without him being onboard.
So with that please take the hard earned lessons learned ;) and please us them so you don't make the same mistakes that we have made
Darrin
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thank you Doc.
Here is our plan (as much for everyone else as for you).
We are going to open up the deck. I hate that walk way. It is ugly and takes away from the real look of the boat. Not to mention the maintenace involved in keeping plywood clean and neat. Walking shoes are required for our park. We are working towards a nature preserve not to mention that the boat ins not well suited for nightclub ataire. I already talked to several people about the fenceing on the side. Even though it is ugly I plan to keep it up for the very same reasons that you mentioned on your post. A maintenance schedule is already in the works. These numbers are all good for me they give me some time frames to shoot for.
As for the teeth, HELL NO.... This is a submarine, not a damn airplane........
No offence to the Torsk boys.
Rick
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what has been done of the ne decking looks good, I got to see it this weekend. I reall wish I could be there to help next saturday, but since I was there this weekend I cant make it out this coming one.
I do have to say, there was a sub that actually did have teeth painted on it during the war.
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then there was the USS Baya who painted her's on after the war was over and her's in the drydock are scary lookin.
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Very cool.
But I am still not painting teeth on my boat.
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Please don't because I may have to disown you if you do :knuppel2:
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I don't want to rain on anyone's scientific testing of our new deck...but I had a piece at home as I'm rebuilding one of the little hatches. I had a can of rustoleum and thought "what the heck" and gave it two coats of flat black paint.
Well, contrary to what I was told, the wood DOES hold paint and it looks pretty good compared to other non-painted wood I have. Of course I'm not suggesting we spray paint the deck, but I just wanted to let you guys who plan on testing this that at least it will hold paint.
Rick - I'll bring the piece I painted on Saturday so you can see it.
The rest of you, please carry on because we need to know how best to paint the deck. And at this point, I'd say painting is our best bet unless you can come up with a better, more economical and longer lasting idea...Lord knows I'm all for easy at this point.
Mark A.
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Spraying is feasible, but I'd like to see weathering tests. I think that was the real kicker with the other boats, but you never know.
Black engine spray paint would stick to just about anything, in my mind. If it can withstand engine heat, it can take the sun and rain. It won't be cheap, though.
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But how long would spray paint last being walked on?
If we decided to paint the boat, I say grab the air compressor and a spray gun. Wouldn't take long at all doing that.
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Wear and tear is going to occur on the deck. I am already looking at a maintenence schedule for this. Perhaps an annual or bi annual inspection of the deck and painting as necessary.
Rick
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Stephen, my wife and I endured the 30 degree start and a brisk north wind and got more deck put down. But after we got working, we really didn't notice the cold (except for my wife). Just dress warm and in layers.
My wife spent most of the time retrieving stuff we dropped over the side :uglystupid2: which makes me happy we are on land.
First pic is Stephen (left) and me (right). The second pic is of what we've put down over two weekends.
Yeah, it's not much, but when you only have 2-3 people, it takes on average 45 minutes to get one board down. To make matters worse, the wood is warping and twisting which requires us to bolt one side down, then move everything to the other end and using spacers, work our way back to the other end.
However slow it's going, I can say that it's being done correctly and the boards are as straight as they are going to get (fighting the aforementioned warping/twisting and we found out yesterday that the supports aren't level) and they are evenly spaced.
Next workday is Saturday, Dec. 13th @ 9 AM. Hope to see a few more bodies.
Mark
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Mark,
We were discussing this this weekend. How were the decks layed above the chain and rope lockers? We intend using these in the future but I honestly have no idea what was different about the deck...but then how would you get the lines and chains in and out?
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I think Rick said that we have deck plans showing hatch locations. This will help us to put the hatches back to where they were pulled. In some cases when the deck was re-laid last time, certain hatch covers were not installed.
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Deck plans will be used when we get to that point.
First order of business is to get the starboard side done around the the bridge so traffic can be re-routed and the rest of the deck pulled.
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Batfish crew,
STAY on the track that you are doing because you are going it right!!! please make sure that you are priming the steel before you lay the wood down, that alone will save you trouble down the line and that includes the extra holes in your deck stringers. Remember the old addage, rust NEVER sleeps.
Keep up the great work!
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I am happy to report that we had a good turn out yesterday and got quite of bit of deck put down and a lot more of it sorted, cut and moved into position for final cutting and installing.
My thanks to my wife, Ed Williams, Tim Katzung, Brad Baker, Brandt Hopper & Mark Sarsfield for coming out. Other than the hurricane-type wind, it was a good day for the middle of December.
I've included a photo from what we began the day with and what we ended up with by the time we left. Ed, Tim and myself focused on putting deck down, Mark S., Brad & Brandt worked on getting more wood cut and moved into position. This just goes to show you what can be done when we get numbers out there.
Am hoping to have our next work day on 12/27/08. Tim Katzung - please email me with your email address. Mine is ussbatfish @yahoo.com
Thanks!
Mark A.
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good job guys.
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Thanks for sharing your photos as always Mark!
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I've been lax in uploading photos. We've been busy in the mid-section of the deck, just aft of the bridge. We have completed the path around the A/C units and yesteday had a group of Army Guard types that ripped up a huge chuck of old deck...and then brought up a significant amount of the new wood. About 20 guys and gals saved us about a month worth of work in one afternoon
Hoo-ah!
I'll upload some photos later today...am in the process of writing two research papers for my classes and time is tight.
Mark A.
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I want to restate MarkA/s post. Hoo Ya. All of the volunteers have been an enormous help on this deck project. As the deck continues to go down the old girl looks better and better. Help from large organized groups like the reservists yesterday make a big difference. Let's keep up the good work.
Rick
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I really promise to post some pictures tonight :D
My evenings have been hectic, but school is almost over and I can experience what I've only dreamed of....some free time...until June when classes start again.
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OK, here is a time-lapsed over the last two months.
FEB 7: just a few boards in portside
FEB 21: a few more boards in, putting loose boards in to cover the open areas and keep little Johnny from falling in
MAR 7: Starting to fill in, got the section aft of the A/C units done in an attempt to re-route traffic
APR 4: New route open as path is secure, still an open area bottom right and starboard of A/C units. Notice all the deck remove and new wood brought up and stacked by Guard types.
APR 18: Filled in hole that was at bottom right of previous photo...almost got the gap closed next to A/C units. Next step is to move aft to create walkway from aft end to deck in middle of photo.
Have I mentioned that there is a work day on May 2nd...? Did I mention free food? I think Darrin volunteered to supply the beer.
Anyway, there is your update...I'll try to be more current on posting photos...at least until June when my Undersea Warfare class starts.
Mark A.
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Mark,
IF I was closer to the Batfish I would be more then happy to bring the beer and work on the deck with you all but sadly that is not the case because of being in school and living in Va. BTW that deck looks GOOOOD :smitten:
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Good work as usual guys. :)
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I might also add that when I walked on this amazing deck this past weekend that it felt so solid and right beyond words. I live in OKC and it is extremely hard for me to get down and work on the deck. THESE GUYS ARE A GIFT BEYOND COMPARE. Thank you to all of you - without you the 'Fish would be in a bad place.
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OK, I'm back (been out a while recovering from shoulder surgery) and we have worked on the aft end the last few work days (including today). Thanks to Ed, Brandt, Jack and my wife for coming out.
The reason we did this was to open the starboard side, but when we pulled off the plywood, the deck was rotten for the most part so this became a priority.
The first photo shows the port side deck removed and supports primered (eventually painted black). The existing deck is starboard.
The second photo is what we got done last work day, enough to route traffic port and off the rotten deck.
The third photo is from today where we removed the rest of the rotten deck and primered (and painted) the supports.
The last photo is where we ended today. This will be completed next Saturday.
I've created a graphic status image on the Batfish Website: http://www.ussbatfish.com/Deck_Replacement_Status.html (http://www.ussbatfish.com/Deck_Replacement_Status.html)
Mark Allen
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Got any new pics from Saturday?
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Looking at the counterspring on the hatch... we don't have a ratchet mechanism on COD's hatches! Must be a BALAO improvement! :idiot2:
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Paul
We have them on the Drum, It may have been an upgrade during the '45 shipyard.
Tom
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We also have them on Torsk, 1 of which is way too tight right now and needs to be reset ;)
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Got any new pics from Saturday?
Here are some.
1: completed part aft of exit...was challenging as holes didn't line up well.
2: pulled plywood off port side exit, note the rotted wood of original deck.
3: aft exit looking aft, removed railing (will be replaced later)
4: area forward of aft exit, we pulled deck, prepped supports and set boards in place for securing.
Thanks to Roger, Ed and Jack for coming out.
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Aft section looks good. You guys handled that hole misalignment very well.
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Updated photos...
The first two are from two weeks ago (thanks to Ed and Wesley for helping out). The second two are from yesterday (thanks to Ed and Mark Sarsfield for helping out...and Rick supervised :D ). Next Saturday (10/31) we plan to finish the area just forward of the aft exit in case anyone wants to come out.
To get the full effect, scroll up...see the before photos...and then see how it looks now.
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It looks great :) Wish I was there, As it looks I will not be able to help out at all during the school semesters because I am so busy and so poor, so most of my help will have to come during the summer.
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Another Batfish Deck Work day...thanks to Ed, Roger and Brandt for coming out. Even Rick got a little dirty today.
We completed the aft section. Just have the area around the railing and two sections where metal was welded to the hull, used for transporation. We hope to get those removed on Nov. 14th and finish the small amount of deck those two pieces of metal are blocking.
We also started work forward, just aft of the bridge...got 2 boards put down as we work to route traffic starboard and then can remove the remaining old deck (and plywood).
Next work day is Nov 14th @ 8 AM to 2 or 3 in the afternoon.
Mark
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We got a lot of deck put down on the 14th. The big hole in the 2nd picture above has a lot of new deck on it, now.
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Beautiful work guys.
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14th Work Day results...thanks to my wife, Mark S., Wesley, Jack & Brandt for coming out. Even a few subvets from the Sea Poacher came out and helped. As Mark said, we filled in a big part of the hole and started up the starboard side of the bridge. Here are a couple of pics...scroll up to see the before photos.
Next work day is the 28th...come out and work off all that turkey and stuffing :D
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Here are some pictures from our November 2009 work day. Yes, I've been holding on to them (i.e. forgot to post them) and yes...it was our last work day. I can't even remember who all was there...but I appreciate them coming out.
But that changes tomorrow...a few of us will be out.
I'll post tomorrow's photos in a timely manner.
Mark
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My favorite is the incredibly shrinking plywood pathway. I cannot wait until that is gone..... :smitten:
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Well done guys, keep the faith, you will get there.
:knuppel2:
Tom
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Right now the deck is #1 priority. I have commited us to having that done by next year. I want to see it completed. even if we get a little done at a time.
Rick
uh oh.....
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Update from our March 6th work day.
Had a good turn out: me, my wife, Ed, Wesley, Jack, Brandt and Jason (new guy).
Here are some photos.
1. Jason worked on getting some of the old plywood off, removing some old deck and bolts.
2. We filled in the hole aft of the bridge.
3. We added one more board, but ran into some issues with the metal flange next to the bridge. Also have some welding concerns to address
4. Due to welding concerns, we started back forward of the bridge again in our attempt to get the starboard side deck done.
We are planning another work day on the 20th...come on out.
Mark
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I've attached a PDF from a local paper that circulates around the Tulsa, OK area.
On our last work day, I had a reporter (friend of my wife) come out to do an article to help promote our volunteer work.
It hit mail boxes today so I wanted to put it on here in hopes that it will generate some more volunteer types for us.
Thanks,
Mark
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got any pics of saturday? don't know what got done after I had to leave early.
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Thanks to Ed, Wesley, Roger, Jason, Brandt and Jack for coming out last Saturday.
We got a nice section of deck done as with this many people we had a system working.
We got the small section to the left and the bigger section forward of the bridge completed. Will try to work aft and starboard next Saturday the 17th. Rick is working on getting some angle iron and the uber-drill.
Here are some photos...
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We pre-cut a lot of the boards for forward of the bridge last year (or earlier). Hopefully, that helped you guys out.
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That's what we started with, but needed more as we worked across the deck.
Hopefully all will be ready to put up the runners this Saturday. Rick said he has the steel...just need the uber-drill to punch holes in it.
Oh, work day this Saturday the 17th if anyone wants to come out.
Mark
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On the 17th, Rick and I spent most of the day (before the rain hit) removing some old supports and installing angle iron. Jack cut boards to fit and Brandt worked prepping bolts. No pics...sorry.
Yesterday, Ed, Jack, Brandt, Roger, Leilani and I came out. Ed and I initally worked no getting another section of angle iron up and Ed got the next section prepped and that will go up next Saturday.
Compared to some photos a few posts up...compare with what we got installed yesterday.
Oh, another work day Saturday the 8th.
Mark
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Nope,
Nada, zilch, zero information has come this way....... no worries I don't think that the Torsk is going to sea anytime sooon ;D
I am TRULY proud of what you ALL have accomplished with your boat especially with the decking, keep up the good work ;)
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More deck update photos.
On the 8th, Tim, Mark S. and I worked after of the bridge (first photo).
Yesterday, Jack, Wesley, Brandt and I (with help from Rick and a new guy I can't remember his name) worked on the starboard side (2nd and 3rd photos)
Next Workday is June 19th.
Mark
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Hey i got a question for yall why is the batfish outer hull grey instead of black like the other Subs are was it on purpose or something else?
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I know it was black in the 50's...but I don't know when it went "all gray". will be nice to get the correct scheme back on the sub.
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Ya i know what you mean would be nice to know why they painted it grey in the first place also
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Tomarow ima go see the Batfish with parents its gonna be cool
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That deck looks fantastic. Super work!
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Mark S.
At this time, I am going to let the subvets continue to raise money for the sand blast. In the mean time I am already working on a plane to get some paint onto the boat. keep in mind that this will not include a sand blasting solution. Something has to be don and soon. I plan on getting it there.....
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Good luck sir its gonna look great when its done the decks looking great me nad my dad might volunteer
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Had a nice turn out yesterday. Besides me and my wife, we had Ed, Brandt, Mark S., Wesley and a couple of new guys: BJ Jones and Jason (didn't get his last name) and a local state representative (again, I forgot his name - maybe Rick will remember).
After pulling a few board and poking new holes in the metal to reposition them...we were able to get the starboard side open for public traffic (first two pictures) and we also had a team working on getting the old plywood and deck off (last picture). It was really hot and humid (heat index well over 100) and I appreciate all who came out.
Next work day is July 17th. This time we will work on the shady side of the bridge and pull plywood and deck, remove bolts and prep the runners. This way in August we can again work on the shady side of the bridge and put new deck down there. With the heat and humidity during the summer...I think this would keep us all from overheating.
Mark
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Wow! Incredible work ... AGAIN, Mark! Heartfelt congrats to you and the awesome folks who showed up!!
Do you put Thompsons or some other sealant on the wood to keep it from weathering in in the hot Oklahoma sun?
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Nice job fellas it looks very good! oh ya before i forget happy fathers day to yall dads out there
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Fred,
That's bare wood you're looking at. It used to be darker but the sun has bleached it. Rick has "petty officer candidates" coming out in August to pressure wash the flaking paint off the hull and to start painting. We all agree that we want to get a coat of black paint on the laid deck before the wood rots out and all that hard work turns to dust.
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I think the key is traffic. We can't paint what we've put down yet because that is where our visitors walk. My guess is that painting will have to wait until more of the deck (if not all of it) is installed to allow our guest to walk on 1/2 of it while the other 1/2 dries.
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Hey i just saw on newson6 that yall baught the Uss Oklahomas mast thats pretty cool..
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Mark A, and all otheres.
We have a temporary covering on that starboard hatch. The visitors are on all new deck as of this week. The Creek Kids are pulling up the last of the plywood and we will be shoring up the entrence area on the bow very soon. This is a major milestone on the deck work.
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I will start an new topic on the OK Mast so everyone can follow...
Rick
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It sounds like the deck is nearly complete rick good job i have a question though are yall gonna close the musem to do the painting on the hull?
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No Closures are planed. We will work arround the Visitor traffice wheneverna nd Where ever we can. If I need to close for some unfortunatel reason, I will make an announcement....
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Mark,
When we have painted our deck on Torsk, we have marked off half of the deck and then painted it, after the boat closed we painted the other half so it was good and dry the next day for the tourista's. OR if you guys waited until the boat closed and then painted the entire deck (it takes an hour or so with rollers and a couple of guys working at the same time..
On the Honolulu (SSN 718) we closed one hatch and painted the forward end and then reopened it a couple of hours later and did the aft end, that process took about 6-8 hours because we were painting the whole hull above the water line at the same time, and it was easiest for us on the weekends to do it (used to piss my guys off when I told them we were working on Saturday)
Darrin.
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Many thanks to all who came out last Saturday. Despite the heat and humidity, all the old deck has been removed from the Batfish. We got most of the old brass bolts removed also. All that is left is to remove the remaining bolts and prep the deck for the new wood.
Thanks to everyone that came out. Next work day is August 21st. I plan to be at the sub on the 31st to prep the deck supports and remove any remaining bolts. I think Mark S. is coming also...so if you have some time, come out for a little while and lend a hand.
Thanks again to everyone to came out yesterday.
Mark
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Mark A and the crew just hit a major mile stone today. the last of the old deck wood and hardware has been removed. Now we just have to finish putting the new deck down.
BZ Guys...
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Way to go guys!!! :) You've done an amazing job. I can't wait to see her in a couple of weeks!
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Next Work Day is Saturday Sept. 18th @ 8 am
We are working the port side putting new deck down...or "filling the hole" as Rick puts it.
Every board down gets us closer to completion.
Should be a bit cooler....so come on out.
Mark
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I'll be there.
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Put in some hours for me too. I'll be decorating for Sunday that day. Wow, 19 days and Skip's going to be plural.
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You know the difference between a wedding and a funeral is at a wedding you can still smell the flowers. ::)
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Figure it's time for a deck update.
Had a good turn out the last two work days and have completed the section forward of the bridge up to the front entrance. Yesterday, we had a good number come out: Tim, Ed, Roger, Jack, Mark & Brandt. We were all surprised on the amount of deck we got put down. The first photo is where we ended last time and the next two photos are of the area forward of the bridge when we finished yesterday.
Next work day is October 16th. For those of you not participating in the Boy Scout thing, come on out and give us a hand.
Mark
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We put down a record of 33 rows of boards. Usually, it's around 12 to 16. Definitely BZ to everyone on the crew.
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Nice work as usual. How much more deck is left to put down?
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I would estimate that we are just over 50% done placing new deck. One the good side, the old stuff in now completely up.
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Thanks to Leilani, Brandt, Jack, John, Matt and Mike who came out today and helped complete the area forward of the bridge. Yes - the whole section forward of the bridge to the forward entrance (with the exception right in front of the entrance) has new decking.
Next Workday is tentatively set for October 30th - depending on whether or not I can get any one to come out. If you can, let me know.
Here are a few photos of the completed area.
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once again, excelent work. It is so nice to be able to walk across the deck port to starboard again without having to be an acrobate. keep up the good work guys. This helps me get more for the boat and museum....
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Reminder - Deck Work Day next Saturday, October 30th. 8 AM to ???
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So, you guys decided to lay deck in front of the AC units on the 30th? I figured that you wanted to tackle the bow next, but if we have to pull some boards, I guess not. It makes sense to finish the whole area around the bridge.
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Deck Update. Over the last two work days, we have been able to complete the section aft of the bridge and forward of the A/C units. We even got a little done around the A/C units before we ran out of time.
First photo is from the November work day and the next two are from last Saturday. Thanks to all who have came out all year to help with this huge task.
Merry Christmas!
Mark
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Notice the dwindlling number of chain stantions. My volunteers have done a fantastic job this last year. I cannot brag on them enough. :smitten:
BZ to all of the help on restoring the deck, painting the boat, and recovering the OK Mast. I look forward to another outstanding year next year.
Everyone have a merry christmans and Happy new year.
Rick
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Nice work, guys. I wish I was more available.
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Well, now that I work for the museum up the road, I'll be able to stop by and help a little more often.
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We have been moving down the port side over the last two work days. First photo is from two work days ago, the next two from last Saturday. I appreciate Ed, Brandt, Leilani, Jason (and family), and Jack for coming out.
Next work day is April 2nd. Would like to get the aft section done before the reunion in May...we need more people to come out.
Thanks.
Mark
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I'll make an effort to come out this next work day to help you guys reach your goal.
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I wanted to be the firse to brag on my deck crew. They have been kicking Ars and have nearly completed the after protion of the deck. Next weekend they will be planning to finish filling in the hole in the deck. after that we have some rework to complete and then onto the bow section. I can confidently say that we have hit the 85% complet portion of this project. Many thanks go to Mark ED Lelani, Brent and Jack, as well as the many others that have helped with clean up, plugs, and prep work on this masive project. I just hope I have nto run you guys off yet as there is much more work to be done :)
Rick
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Thank God! After 3 years...I'm soooo ready to work on something else. I think it's safe to say we all are ready.
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I hear you've completed a lot more of the deck?
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The bow is shaping up nicely. A few areas need to be addressed up there, but one or two more work days and that part should be completed.
We have an area in the aft section that needs to be reworked, because a boy scout volunteer group did more harm than good about a year ago.
Finally, there's the bridge. I'd like to get our boat horn lever remounted (welded) to the gunwale of the bridge before we start laying any boards down - it's laying below the bridge's deck supports at this time. The bridge is a pretty small area to repair and I would think that it could be completed in one weekend. We'll have to drill through boards and metal simultaneously, since it's all new support structures up there. Hopefully, we don't bust too many drill bits.
Mark Allen took pictures this past Saturday. He probably hasn't had the time to post them. Otherwise they'd be on here by now.
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Sorry for the delay in posting...
Here is a summary of our work this summer...we only worked one day a month because it was so hot this year, but I can say that phase 1 of the deck work is done. Phase 2 will include finishing several small areas over the entire deck...and phase 3 will include fixing two areas that boards were laid down incorrectly.
Thanks to all the volunteers that have come out to make this happen.
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Now most of the deck is black. More fun to continue this Saturday...
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So Mark,
It has been a few years since the deck project has been updated, what is the latest and greatest in regards to completing the deck?
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I'll be on the boat on the 16th (visiting and seeing if I can be of any service for repairs, etc.) and I am going to take a whole battery of new external pics.
Also: What became of the old deck? Silversides is refinishing and selling their old deck for revenue. Did Batfish keep her old decking around?
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We cut up the old deck into 6"blocks of wood and branded them with a silhouette of the the Batfish. I think the museum sells them for a few dollars.
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Neat idea on the branding. Is the deck completed? Some very thick stainless grating (foot traffic grade) would be appropriate over the A/C units. This would allow walking the deck without falling in, blocking off or damaging the units.
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I replied to your PM with the deck details.
I think grating was mentioned before, but then it's one more thing for old people and children to trip over and also dirt from people's shoes will fall into the units. They are better off being roped off, in my opinion.
I would like to see the fence material removed from the railings and a few more cables installed, instead. The fence does not make the boat look good at all.
We have also batted around the idea of adding a stairwell to the aft bridge like a lot of boats had done to their bridges during the war. This would allow visitors, Batfish crew, park management, volunteers, etc. to easily get up there (visitors climb up there now, which is dangerous).
Rick would be more than happy to brief you on anything and everything that has gone down at the museum for the past 40 years and the direction that we're trying to go.
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Excellent Mark, I hope to see him on Saturday.
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Mark,
The Torsk has her AC unit underneath the deck on the Port side and it has just the standard decking which has finally been restored, it makes for an interesting view when female tourista's in the past have gone over top of it during the summer... think Ms Monroe in a nice white dress in some like it hot..
And due to the deteriation of the deck and superstructure holding it up, this hasn't been done in years and from what I understand that portion of the topside superstructure and decking have finally been replaced..
Sadly I have not been onboard the Torsk in almost 2 years so while I read the BBS, it just isn't the same as being their onboard dedicating time along with blood, sweat and tears once more.
Darrin
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Darrin,
I'm sure that the condensers blowing skirts in the air provide a nice view and entertainment, but since the top of our units are flush with the wooden deck, we really don't want to put a raised grating on top of them. It's just one more thing to trip over.
Did you move away from Baltimore? I think I remember you mentioning something like that a while ago. I'm trying to remember if I visited you guys in 2010 or 2011.
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Mark,
I lived in Va for 8 years and did the 4 hour drive quite often to Baltimore until the gas prices got to expensive for me to do that :-[ and I finally retired from the Military last July and moved to Florida the first week of August 2012, as far as a paying job goes... nope havent worked for pay since sometime last May.
With that being said I did volunteer at the Ft Eustis Transportation Museum finishing up phase 1 and part of phase 2 of the Train Pavilion that I started in 2009/10. And yes they did get a Sherman :2funny: it was supposed to be fully restored and operational, what we got was a rusted out hull with tracks on it, no engine (that I know of) no drive line and at that time those looking at it needed tetnus shots :tickedoff:
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Sounds like it was intended to be a target at an Army gun range.
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they got it from another museum that was closing :2funny: and they also recieved before I left a "fully operational" M60 Patton tank.... err at least it was running until the week before it was to be shipped to Ft Eustis when they broke the u joints in the drive line pulling another fully restored Sherman tank :2funny: