SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
General Boards => Submarine Related Chatter => Topic started by: Darrin on June 18, 2008, 09:02:42 PM
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Folks,
One of the few ways that I know to get those of us "non quals" to know our submarines is to hold school of the boat, now with that being said and knowing that we for the most part are ALL working on WWII submarines that have been in some cases modified throughout the years as the times have changed, to me it would be nice if we started a post weekly about submarine systems.
What say you???
Darrin
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Sounds like fun to me!
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Welll Lance,
if we get a majority behind this then I suggest that we use the Fleet Submarine Manual... the questions if we start this I hopefully will be able to start posting them on Tuesday's and the closing time on the question of the week will close on the following Sunday. NOW if you post the answer you will also need to post where you found the answer at so that the rest of us can find it so that we can all learn together, SO I suggest that we stay with the Fleet Submarine Manual that is posted on the HNSA website because that is a pretty safe balance between all of the museum boats..
IF you have questions that you would liked asked (PLEASE help) you will for obvious reasons be not able to post the answer unless you STUMP us all and the time expires..
i.e. what does it take to pump sanitaries out of the ships horn?? (that was an "oolie" given during submarine qual's on Diesels from what I have been told)
to the mundane... how many lines do you need to use when mooring a submarine to a pier... And yes there are descriptions in HNSA for the different ways to do that and why.
Darrin
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Sounds good to me. I have managed to fool a lot of people by telling everyone elses stories. I would like some of my one. LOL....
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It sure is a good idea to know as much about these engineering marvels as possible. BUT!!! Keep in mind there is an added dimension to these boats now that they are historical memorials... the historical aspects of the boats are equally as important as the capacity of various tanks and how the trim and drain system functions!
Damn few folks have ever asked about the 200-lb blow system... but far more will ask questions that are NEVER covered in the sub manual! There are lots of aspects in this category: historical significance of the US Navy fleet sub in the Pacific war... how it was constructed, the history of how the Navy selected commanding officers, the whole story of the bad torpedoes, the cultural aspects of the crews, the workers who built them... and on and on and on....
It's what makes these boats a living historical treasure instead of a plumber's wet dream (or nightmare)... not saying knowing the basics of the boat are not important, they sure are... but we have an added responsibility to know the BIG PICTURE of the boat... and sadly, that is not something you can find in a couple of cool, well-illustrated books!.
It is worth a lifetime of exploration!
I'm only starting...
PF
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I would like to read these too. Always good to learn more about the boats.
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Paul,
you are right that a LOT of folks don't care what an IMO pump is or where the air comes from to put into the tanks and that if you mention Hardy/Tynes they have no clue and they are thinking about Laurel and Hardy and not an aircompressor. And honestly the tourista's dont care about that COD's engines are able to be run and that there are how many other WWII boats can do that??? what 2 others TOTAL?? Pamp and Silversides.. That is a pretty sad number honestly but it does cost a LOT of money to get them back into shape and a LOT of work to maintain them and the fuel/lube oil to go with them.
Honestly it would be nice to hear the different boats speak up about their specific boat, the more that we learn off of each other the better our tours can be and the better we can try to make our docents who show our boats throughout the week.
On the other hand there are those boats that are trying to make their boats come back to life and the best way to do it is get the manuals back out and learn them and that is why I am trying to do this.. Hell I get to research the questions out of the manuals to ask, I don't know them off of the top of my head so this will be a learning experiance for most if not all of us.
Darrin
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Go for it Darrin... it sounds like a great idea... one that i have threatend our local subvets with for years... the thought that some civilians could actually answer the standardized qual questions (we have copies of our WWII crew qual notebooks and tests).. would make them lose their beauty sleep! :D
I just want everyone to keep in mind something that the vets don't understand (most of them, at least) and that is the "full dimension" of the boats' history.
My motivation to volunteer as a tourguide aboard COD in the summer of 1976 was due in large part to the fact that our vet tour guide spent what seemed like hours tracing out the air and water lines in the forward torpedo room (several people left the tour and went topside!) and he never mentioned hotbunking or anything about the role subs played in the larger Pacific war!
But again, that is not what you're talking about. My thumbs' up to the school of the boat!!!
PF ;)
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Thanks Paul,
hopefully IF I get my computer rewired tonight along with the rest of my living room (moved it all around yesterday night) I will be able to go through and get the questions ready for the first post starting hopefully tomorrow.
IF you or anyone have the old qual books and are able to scan them please do because like Paul and I have both mentioned each boat is a little different from what the sub manuals show and I am more then willing to work around and with the acutal qual books from different boats so that we can all see the differnences between the boats and not just the "standard" WWII Fleet boat that is given in the manual.
Darrin
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Damn few folks have ever asked about the 200-lb blow system... but far more will ask questions that are NEVER covered in the sub manual! There are lots of aspects in this category: historical significance of the US Navy fleet sub in the Pacific war... how it was constructed, the history of how the Navy selected commanding officers, the whole story of the bad torpedoes, the cultural aspects of the crews, the workers who built them... and on and on and on....
Paul is right...and so is Darrin. For me, in creating the BATFISH website, it was about researching the history, reading the books, getting the patrol reports, learning the crew's names...then it was about submarine operations in the Pacific and how the BATFISH did it's job. After that, I realized just how complex the WW2 fleet boat is and I am now learning about how the sub works (or worked).
Maybe it depends on your role at the sub and if you interact with tourists. For me it was history first because people visit the website probably more than come to the park (I'd have to check the numbers). So the website contains BATFISH history and maybe some day I'll add more info on what an IMO pump does. There are a few subnuts like the people here that want to know what makes it tick.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that everyone has a role, whether curator, tour guide, webmaster, or light bulb changer. And we all have a common goal. Our favorite sub. Bottom line...I think everyone focuses, one way or another, on restoration and education, maybe not in that order. Those should be our top goals IMHO. Without either one...our history disappears.
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How right you are! Like any complex endevour, it takes all kinds of talent and interests!
It is my obsevation that subvets tend to deal mainly with the hardware -- and that is understandable since they had to qualify. But to be of interest to the public, once a boat is a memorial, that whole other dimension comes to the forefront. It doesn't replace anything, but becomes (IMHO) the first priority.
In other words, Martha Stewart kicks the chief of the boat's ass!!!
:2funny:
PF
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Well Martha when you schedule work weekends you will find out that the COB kicks her ass every time :knuppel2:
It's all good though Paul, for the most part yes Martha is present more then the COB and making everything pretty, just remember without the subvet's you will be out of power before long and all of Martha's work will be left in the dark especially if there is little or no maintenance done to maintain her electrical or any other systems. :2funny:
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I find that we all talke about what interests us the most. for me it is the general life of the crew members on the boat. (the meals. where they slept. what they did) for others it is more technical. As docents or tour guids we need to learn to read our patrans and find out what interests them. Then we need to adjust our stories to their enterests. I have had people that want to know everythign about hte engines. How big are they? what is the horse powere? ect. Others will just look at you all glassy eyed when you tell them that they are 9 cylender opppsed piston engines that are capable fo puttingout 1600 horse power apeace.
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Well, upon making contact via email with Robert Hunt, Richard Baker, and Ben Hynum, who are all alive today and served on the USS Tambor with my grandfather, I have learned that my grandfather (EM3/c) spent a lot of time in the maneuvering room at the levers/switches there. I'd love to learn more about what those things do.
(http://www.snakeyez.us/photos/memorialweekend2008/thumb/480DSC05583.JPG)
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Looky there . I see a Batfish Relief Crew Shirt..... a Batfish Volunteer out for another days work....... ;D
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Well Lance here is the first of many clues as to what you Grandpa did at the cube....
First thing to find out is weither or not that she had a "split" cube or a single cube.. Because the job while the same it is also different and done by two on a split cube which IMHO is a better way to go then a single cube, that whole redundancy thing comes to mind especially in a fire... IE you have a fire in the port side of manuvering on a split cube boat what have you lost?????? you have lost the controls to the number 2,4 motors and gen sets and on a single cube boat????? depends on how the wiring was ran and how good your electricians are.
Just food for thought folks
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Lance may wear your shirt but he comes to the Drum! We are closer.
Tom
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Well Lance here is the first of many clues as to what you Grandpa did at the cube....
First thing to find out is weither or not that she had a "split" cube or a single cube..
Learned something already. I just assumed they were all split.
Any idea what the Tambor had? The more I learn, the more difficult I realize it must have been to go from a brand new boat (Sand Lance - Balao class) to the Tambor.
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It depended on when they when and where they were built at from what I understand.... I can and will try to find out if Tambor had a split or a single cube for you.. give me a couple of days on that ok??
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The maneuvering room and control cubicle is one of the most fascinating places on a fleet boat to me after the control room. And that says a lot, considering how fascinating ALL compartments are on a fleet boat!
First, I believe split cubicles did not appear on fleet boats until later in the war, with the installation of two, large low-speed motors coupled directly to the propeller shafts (I believe started in USS Sea Owl), versus the four high-speed motors connected to the shafts with a reduction gear. I believe all the Tench-class boats had them.
Second, it's been a while since I've been in front of a full control cubicle but here's how I remember the layout. The levers to control forward and reverse direction are the outermost or outboard levers. The other levers (not in any particular order) connect the motors to the output from the diesel generators, connect the motors to the output from the batteries and connect the batteries from the output from the diesel generators. I recall that some of the other levers also control whether the power to the motors is in series in parallel and I believe some also may control whether the power from the batteries is drawn in series or parallel.
Also, on the panel in front of the levers, just below all the meters, there are round knobs or rheostats that control the speed of the motors. In the center, above the meters are rheostats that control the speed of the engines.
Any clarifications are welcome! Again, despite its small size, I enjoy just looking around a maneuvering room and even dropping down below in the motor/red. gear room. Hope you all do as well!
Fred
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The USS Sea Owl SS-405 was a split cube boat, my uncle served on her and a shipmate of his LT Ken Johnson (he is apart of the International Submarine Organization and of K-77 fame) is also a TORSK vol and one of the things that he mentioned about Torsk and the Sea Owl is that they are both alike inside the "people tank" and the big difference was the sonar that was added on the TOP of the bow instead of the Chin Bubble that Torsk has, that and Sea Owl could still "bottom the boat" and after Torsk added the chin bubble they were no longer able to do that for fear of damage to the sonar, here before long I will send him a link to here and see if he is interested in coming here also as a Rep for the K-77..
I heard a LOT of sea stories of the Sea Owl growing up and when I asked Ken to volunteer on Torsk he came out because a nephew of a former shimate asked him to come out and he did it no questions asked.. THAT to me is a TRUE shipmate and he is a shipmate of mine and my uncles now and I have had a LOT of stories confirmed about the Sea Owl and I was really supriesed about one of them in Canada was retold to me by Ken and I couldn't believe that that no shitter was true.... Just remember that "submariners that can't tap dance are queer"....... Long story short, a party was held on their behalf in Canada and they woke up an Adm and they tap danced their way out of trouble and out of the harbour before getting anyone in trouble.
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I'd LOVE for Ken Johnson to be a member here. I've tried to contact him about it without success. Please do bug him Darrin.
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I'd be willing to bet that Tambor (SS-198) was a single cube.
The Drum has a single cube, right?
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Yes, Tambor and Drum have single cubicles.
Fred
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Lance,
when I get home tonight I will shoot him an email and request his presence here on this bbs also... Be forwarned with the Navy and the Army trying to raise his baby he is not spending anytime at home because he has a trailer set up on the grounds so he can help the divers out with every question that they have and how some of the gear works..
On a sad note he was the LAST duty Officer there on K-77 before she sank and he has been beating himself up for the last year about what if's and while the divers went in right after she sank and they did show that he closed the boat up like it is supposed to be done had he been able to get back to the boat before she took the severe list and the Coasties barred anyone from going onboard he could have done a little more he thinks that he could have done something to save her before she ultimatly sank.
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Lance,
when I get home tonight I will shoot him an email and request his presence here on this bbs also... Be forwarned with the Navy and the Army trying to raise his baby he is not spending anytime at home because he has a trailer set up on the grounds so he can help the divers out with every question that they have and how some of the gear works..
I know and completely understand. I just hope he'll register so we can have a "go to" guy for the K-77.