1
News:
Contact admin:
Show Posts
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
Pages: [1] 2
2
Museum Submarine Discussion / how long would the batteries last on a balao running submerged at flank speed?
« on: December 04, 2016, 09:30:49 PM »
I am sure I have come across the answer but I haven't been able to find it again. My not very good memory thinks about an hour.
I would also like a reference if anyone has one.
The wiki for Becuna says (Submerged: 15.0 knots (27.8 km/h) for ?1?2 hour), but I think that is for a Guppy configuration with Sargo II batteries.
Thanx,
Drew
I would also like a reference if anyone has one.
The wiki for Becuna says (Submerged: 15.0 knots (27.8 km/h) for ?1?2 hour), but I think that is for a Guppy configuration with Sargo II batteries.
Thanx,
Drew
3
Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: looking for drawings/info on free flooding deck plates
« on: November 01, 2016, 07:49:17 PM »
Rich,
You have done too good of a job putting the drawings on line!!!
I looked through them, but there are so many, but didn't notice the deck drawings amongst all the others.
Thanx a bunch,
Drew
You have done too good of a job putting the drawings on line!!!
I looked through them, but there are so many, but didn't notice the deck drawings amongst all the others.
Thanx a bunch,
Drew
4
Museum Submarine Discussion / looking for drawings/info on free flooding deck plates
« on: October 09, 2016, 05:53:21 PM »
Included is a picture I found on the web of the Ling's (SS-297) metal deck. The deck appears to be in its original configuration.
The Lionfish (SS-298) and the Ling are both Cramp boats, and I am guessing the Lionfish's aft deck once looked like the Ling. I found a picture of a ceremony on the Lionfish that showed the deck aft of the 5 inch gun was metal. Now the Lionfish's deck is a mutant patchwork.
I would like to know how the deck plates aligned with the sub frame, and how the plates were attached to the frame. I looked at the scanned drawings of the Pompanito, but I didn't find anything to help. I don't know if the Pompanito had metal deck plates.
Any ideas where to look for info? (besides swimming up the Hackensack river and sneaking onto the Ling)
Thanx,
Drew
The Lionfish (SS-298) and the Ling are both Cramp boats, and I am guessing the Lionfish's aft deck once looked like the Ling. I found a picture of a ceremony on the Lionfish that showed the deck aft of the 5 inch gun was metal. Now the Lionfish's deck is a mutant patchwork.
I would like to know how the deck plates aligned with the sub frame, and how the plates were attached to the frame. I looked at the scanned drawings of the Pompanito, but I didn't find anything to help. I don't know if the Pompanito had metal deck plates.
Any ideas where to look for info? (besides swimming up the Hackensack river and sneaking onto the Ling)
Thanx,
Drew
5
New Member Introductions / Re: Retired Squids in Phoenix, Arizona
« on: July 18, 2016, 08:22:45 PM »
Hi Lynn,
Welcome.
You may have noticed things things are a little quiet here these days. Despite that, I have found forum members to be a great help to me answering technical and questions and giving advice about keeping a WWII diesel boat on the top side of the water.
If you collect to much money and don't know what to do with it, come to Fall River Massachusetts and I can help you spend it on another boat.
Best of luck and good wishes.
Drew
Welcome.
You may have noticed things things are a little quiet here these days. Despite that, I have found forum members to be a great help to me answering technical and questions and giving advice about keeping a WWII diesel boat on the top side of the water.
If you collect to much money and don't know what to do with it, come to Fall River Massachusetts and I can help you spend it on another boat.
Best of luck and good wishes.
Drew
6
USS Ling (SS-297) / Re: USS Ling Status
« on: May 31, 2016, 10:25:39 PM »
Speaking as a Lionnfish (SS-298) volunteer, I sure hope she isn't the next one to go. And suffer the fate her younger sister her sister the Ling (SS-297) is possibly facing.
I read this website with some envy when I hear about the amazing work done by volunteers to get some of the boats in such great shape that equipment actually operates, like engines that run or periscopes that raise and lower.
We don't have the resources to accomplish anything as impressive as that. There are only 3 volunteers working on the Lionfish. The goal is to make her look good. A proud memorial to the men who served on her. We do get help where students from the Naval Academy Prep school in Newport, or Massachusetts maritime, or Maine maritime come for a 1/2 day to help us out. And we had two incredibly generous welders from the Groton sub base come for a few days. A plank owner visited her last year and thanked us for taking care of his boat, that made me feel good.
The Cove is typically open 363 days a year. In the 5 years have been working on the boat it was only closed for one two week period because the brow got broken in a storm, and the visitors could not safely walk onto the boat.
I think last year over 7000 visitors came aboard on one day, well it was the Cove's free entry day. So the Lionfish is still going strong. Sorta, she is made of metal, is floating in water, and rust and deterioration of the deck is a constant battle.
And it has been a long time since the last drydock "tuneup".
Best wishes to all of us who work hard to keep the boats going.
Drew
I read this website with some envy when I hear about the amazing work done by volunteers to get some of the boats in such great shape that equipment actually operates, like engines that run or periscopes that raise and lower.
We don't have the resources to accomplish anything as impressive as that. There are only 3 volunteers working on the Lionfish. The goal is to make her look good. A proud memorial to the men who served on her. We do get help where students from the Naval Academy Prep school in Newport, or Massachusetts maritime, or Maine maritime come for a 1/2 day to help us out. And we had two incredibly generous welders from the Groton sub base come for a few days. A plank owner visited her last year and thanked us for taking care of his boat, that made me feel good.
The Cove is typically open 363 days a year. In the 5 years have been working on the boat it was only closed for one two week period because the brow got broken in a storm, and the visitors could not safely walk onto the boat.
I think last year over 7000 visitors came aboard on one day, well it was the Cove's free entry day. So the Lionfish is still going strong. Sorta, she is made of metal, is floating in water, and rust and deterioration of the deck is a constant battle.
And it has been a long time since the last drydock "tuneup".
Best wishes to all of us who work hard to keep the boats going.
Drew
7
Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: Balao length
« on: April 18, 2016, 09:06:49 PM »
Hi Gil,
I don't think I would have ever connected the numbers on the drawing with the frame numbers. That is very useful to know.
I have noticed frame numbers on a few bulkheads but never thought the would be of any use to me.
Thanx for helping me out.
Drew
I don't think I would have ever connected the numbers on the drawing with the frame numbers. That is very useful to know.
I have noticed frame numbers on a few bulkheads but never thought the would be of any use to me.
Thanx for helping me out.
Drew
8
Museum Submarine Discussion / baloa length (retry)
« on: April 12, 2016, 10:07:39 PM »
Hmmm, hitting tab strangley sent my previous message before I was done, and all I wanted to do was indent a line.
So, the plan drawings list the length as 311ft, 9+1/16 inches.
Then the length between perpendiculars is listed, no clue what that refers too.
There is a scale on the drawing, where the boat looks about 139 scale units. Strangely the bow doesn't line up with zero on the scale, but hangs out before the scale starts.
If the scale units are yards, the the boat is 3*139=417 feet long. Which is a big difference compared to about 312 feet.
I wanted to use the drawing to figure out what the length was from the crews berth head to the bow or stern. I guess it would be safer to use a tape measure.
The actual blueprint (if it was correct size) wold give me good answers becaus the scale is listed as 1/8" to the foot.
http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ss298.pdf
So, the plan drawings list the length as 311ft, 9+1/16 inches.
Then the length between perpendiculars is listed, no clue what that refers too.
There is a scale on the drawing, where the boat looks about 139 scale units. Strangely the bow doesn't line up with zero on the scale, but hangs out before the scale starts.
If the scale units are yards, the the boat is 3*139=417 feet long. Which is a big difference compared to about 312 feet.
I wanted to use the drawing to figure out what the length was from the crews berth head to the bow or stern. I guess it would be safer to use a tape measure.
The actual blueprint (if it was correct size) wold give me good answers becaus the scale is listed as 1/8" to the foot.
http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ss298.pdf
9
Museum Submarine Discussion / Balao length
« on: April 12, 2016, 09:50:48 PM »
311 9+1/16
Thanx to having the plans on line I can see
http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ss298.pdf
Let's make it a Balao :-) - Jim
Thanx to having the plans on line I can see
http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ss298.pdf
Let's make it a Balao :-) - Jim
10
Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: how can water get into aft trim line?
« on: February 03, 2016, 10:19:04 PM »
Darrin,
Have you heard this story about Charles Steinmetz and Henry Ford?
- - -
Ford, whose electrical engineers couldn’t solve some problems they were having with a gigantic generator, called Steinmetz in to the plant. Upon arriving, Steinmetz rejected all assistance and asked only for a notebook, pencil and cot. According to Scott, Steinmetz listened to the generator and scribbled computations on the notepad for two straight days and nights. On the second night, he asked for a ladder, climbed up the generator and made a chalk mark on its side. Then he told Ford’s skeptical engineers to remove a plate at the mark and replace sixteen windings from the field coil. They did, and the generator performed to perfection.
Henry Ford was thrilled until he got an invoice from General Electric in the amount of $10,000. Ford acknowledged Steinmetz’s success but balked at the figure. He asked for an itemized bill.
Steinmetz, Scott wrote, responded personally to Ford’s request with the following:
Making chalk mark on generator $1.
Knowing where to make mark $9,999.
- ---
I definitely value and appreciate your advice. Althought I am not prepared to offer $9,999.00 I would be happy to buy you a beer if we ever met.
As an update I have found a hole rotted in the most forward ballast vent pipe on stbd side, where rain water filling the waterway will pour into the tank.
I am not sure what tank it is because it is difficult for me to know where I am with the unfammiliar landmarks on the pressure hull. Maybe main ballast tank #1?
Although this tank is flooded it probably isn't the source of the water in the trim line if I am reading the manuals correctly.
I think they indicate only aux1, aux2, safety, and negative has connects to the trim manifold.
So maybe the old gal has multiple tanks flooded.
Have you heard this story about Charles Steinmetz and Henry Ford?
- - -
Ford, whose electrical engineers couldn’t solve some problems they were having with a gigantic generator, called Steinmetz in to the plant. Upon arriving, Steinmetz rejected all assistance and asked only for a notebook, pencil and cot. According to Scott, Steinmetz listened to the generator and scribbled computations on the notepad for two straight days and nights. On the second night, he asked for a ladder, climbed up the generator and made a chalk mark on its side. Then he told Ford’s skeptical engineers to remove a plate at the mark and replace sixteen windings from the field coil. They did, and the generator performed to perfection.
Henry Ford was thrilled until he got an invoice from General Electric in the amount of $10,000. Ford acknowledged Steinmetz’s success but balked at the figure. He asked for an itemized bill.
Steinmetz, Scott wrote, responded personally to Ford’s request with the following:
Making chalk mark on generator $1.
Knowing where to make mark $9,999.
- ---
I definitely value and appreciate your advice. Althought I am not prepared to offer $9,999.00 I would be happy to buy you a beer if we ever met.
As an update I have found a hole rotted in the most forward ballast vent pipe on stbd side, where rain water filling the waterway will pour into the tank.
I am not sure what tank it is because it is difficult for me to know where I am with the unfammiliar landmarks on the pressure hull. Maybe main ballast tank #1?
Although this tank is flooded it probably isn't the source of the water in the trim line if I am reading the manuals correctly.
I think they indicate only aux1, aux2, safety, and negative has connects to the trim manifold.
So maybe the old gal has multiple tanks flooded.
11
Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: how can water get into aft trim line?
« on: January 11, 2016, 10:59:00 PM »
One day I watched one of the maintenance guys pump out one of the tanks on the starboard side. As he removed one of the main tenace plates that was added on the outside of the tank, I could see the water level in the tank is higher than the level of the water on the outside of the tank. I tried to politely suggest that was kinda unusual. My guess is that rainwater is flowing into the tanks. If the vent valves or their pipes has rusted badly enough then water can get it. Since the staff doesn't keep the waterways on the top of the pressure tank unplugged and free flowing, standing water could have caused a rusted thru path to the tanks.
So I like the idea of the tank inspection. The maintenance guys are used to looking for when the trim of the boat is off, which means it is time to pump some tank. I didn't realize there was a pathway from the tanks into the boat. Hopefully some reading and crawling thru the boat will reveal something. The park fired the maintenance guy who really knew the boat. And the curator resigned. so I don't know who to ask about drawings. It hasn't been a good couple of months for the boat.
How did you find the parts to "remove and replace the existing ball valve"?.
The ATR trim line "fire hose" valve is much higher than my leaking valve, perhaps the water isn't up to that level. If so maybe I can swap parts.
Darrin I appreciate all the suggestions. I am mostly on my own for a problem like this. It is very helpful to talk to people who may already know the answer, or may have ideas I haven't thought of.
Thanx,
Drew
So I like the idea of the tank inspection. The maintenance guys are used to looking for when the trim of the boat is off, which means it is time to pump some tank. I didn't realize there was a pathway from the tanks into the boat. Hopefully some reading and crawling thru the boat will reveal something. The park fired the maintenance guy who really knew the boat. And the curator resigned. so I don't know who to ask about drawings. It hasn't been a good couple of months for the boat.
How did you find the parts to "remove and replace the existing ball valve"?.
The ATR trim line "fire hose" valve is much higher than my leaking valve, perhaps the water isn't up to that level. If so maybe I can swap parts.
Darrin I appreciate all the suggestions. I am mostly on my own for a problem like this. It is very helpful to talk to people who may already know the answer, or may have ideas I haven't thought of.
Thanx,
Drew
12
Museum Submarine Discussion / how can water get into aft trim line?
« on: January 10, 2016, 10:38:45 PM »
I have noticed water leaking out of the trim line hose valve in the forward engine room. The valve is located on the port side of the Lionfish. The pipe is about centered in the height dimension of the pressure hull.
I can try to stop the water from coming out of the valve (work on the packing and seal) but I think the valve isn't really the problem. The troubling issue is that somewher there is water getting into the trim line.
I have looked at the documentation (http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/trim/chap2.htm), but it isn't clear to me exactly where the aft trim pipe goes an how many things connect to it.
Any ideas for where to look for the source of the water?
Thanx,
Drew
I can try to stop the water from coming out of the valve (work on the packing and seal) but I think the valve isn't really the problem. The troubling issue is that somewher there is water getting into the trim line.
I have looked at the documentation (http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/trim/chap2.htm), but it isn't clear to me exactly where the aft trim pipe goes an how many things connect to it.
Any ideas for where to look for the source of the water?
Thanx,
Drew
13
Museum Submarine Discussion / out of sight, outa mind?
« on: September 28, 2015, 08:15:47 PM »
The Lionfish's external tanks are stained from rusty water runoff. I would think if we painted them, they would just get stained again until we removed the source of the rust.
I think there are two major sources of the rusty water.
The pressure hull has two troughs (stbd/port) that run bow to stern. They are depressions in the top of the pressure hull. There is no way for the water to escape, so it eventually fills up and overflows down the sides of the tanks. We have standing water in the troughs most of the year. In winter it becomes ice.
The underside of the deck, and the framing super-structure are a rusty mess.
Do you paint the underside of the metal decking?
Is your framing under the deck painted well and rust free?
Have you removed any of the air induction piping aft of the sail to make working below the deck easier?
Do you keep your troughs free of water? How did you do that?
Thanx
I think there are two major sources of the rusty water.
The pressure hull has two troughs (stbd/port) that run bow to stern. They are depressions in the top of the pressure hull. There is no way for the water to escape, so it eventually fills up and overflows down the sides of the tanks. We have standing water in the troughs most of the year. In winter it becomes ice.
The underside of the deck, and the framing super-structure are a rusty mess.
Do you paint the underside of the metal decking?
Is your framing under the deck painted well and rust free?
Have you removed any of the air induction piping aft of the sail to make working below the deck easier?
Do you keep your troughs free of water? How did you do that?
Thanx
14
Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: was tile used during the war?
« on: June 02, 2015, 09:44:38 PM »
Besides being used in high temperature situations (insulation, gaskets), asbestos was added to materials to make them more flexible. Which is why it may be found in tile or tile adhesive.
The fleet sub electrical manual describes SHFL heat/flame resistant cable. This wonderful stuff has two layers of felted asbestos covered in a lead sheath. A hazmat cocktail.
The Lionfish isn't a true vintage WWII boat because the Navy used her through the 1960s. It has modern duplex 3 prong outlets as well as the navy electrical connectors.
When I met the boat the after battery was empty, no bunks. And the floor was a collection of different tile styles/colors that didn't match the rest of the boat. So I have no idea what it looked like in 1944.
If dealing with floor material that contains asbestos, I think covering over the floor is the low cost option. The covering prevents the asbestos containing material from getting disturbed, so the fibers can't escape and get airborne.
Once I found a box shaped hunk of insulation fell off the air ducts onto the floor in the AER. I relaxed after I realized it was just cork that was painted white.
The fleet sub electrical manual describes SHFL heat/flame resistant cable. This wonderful stuff has two layers of felted asbestos covered in a lead sheath. A hazmat cocktail.
The Lionfish isn't a true vintage WWII boat because the Navy used her through the 1960s. It has modern duplex 3 prong outlets as well as the navy electrical connectors.
When I met the boat the after battery was empty, no bunks. And the floor was a collection of different tile styles/colors that didn't match the rest of the boat. So I have no idea what it looked like in 1944.
If dealing with floor material that contains asbestos, I think covering over the floor is the low cost option. The covering prevents the asbestos containing material from getting disturbed, so the fibers can't escape and get airborne.
Once I found a box shaped hunk of insulation fell off the air ducts onto the floor in the AER. I relaxed after I realized it was just cork that was painted white.
15
Museum Submarine Discussion / was tile used during the war?
« on: May 26, 2015, 09:03:31 PM »
The Lionfish is closed for a couple of weeks because the brow got bent during a windy storm. One end of the brow is pinned to a destroyer, the other end has wheels that rest on the Lionfish. The winds caused the brow to get jammed on the Lionfish, and the weld on the pin got partially pulled apart.
The boat is scheduled to be closed only 2 days a year, so the boat being closed for a while due to the brow damage was an opportunity to do something that would take some time. I chose to deal with the tile floor in the crews berthing compartment. The tile was very brittle, and more and more of it was breaking. Pulling up the tile was relatively quick an easy. But underneath I found a lot of leveling compound. And where the leveling compound pulled off the floor, I could see rust. The floor was rusting underneath the leveling compound. I stupidly decided to "fix" this, pull up the leveling compound, and paint the floor with rust inhibiting paint. Like my home repair jobs, I underestimated the work involved.
Getting up the leveling compound was a nasty job, eventually someone lent me a electric chisel thingy. This took about 10 hours. The compound came up in small chunks, leaving a thin layer on the metal. Another person lent me a deck crawler (deck growler)? Never heard of the thing before. It turned an impossible job into just a real sucky job. Another 8 hours. Got two coats of iron oxide primer down. And a top coat of green to protect the primer. I am happy at this point because hopefully the progression is slowed. But due to the welds between sections and a few plates (maybe to remove the batterries?) the floor is very uneven.
During this maintenance saga a surface ship vet wandered by told me that during the war the boat would not have been tiled. Because tile could be flammable. And also make emergency maintenance more difficult.
Did the boats have tile?
Do your boats have tile over leveling compound?
Any problems with rust on the floor?
Now I need to think about what to do next. The host of the Lionfish (Battle ship cove) is unlikely to hire someone to tile the boat. But if someone wanted to tile, they would again have to deal with the uneven floor. Maybe these days 1/4 underlayment would be used instead of leveling compound. But the underlayment would have to be glued to the metal? Maybe the adhesive wouldn't like the paint I just lovingly applied. Some wood floors can float, I think the sections snap together. I haven't heard of underlayment that snaps together.
Thanx,
Drew
The boat is scheduled to be closed only 2 days a year, so the boat being closed for a while due to the brow damage was an opportunity to do something that would take some time. I chose to deal with the tile floor in the crews berthing compartment. The tile was very brittle, and more and more of it was breaking. Pulling up the tile was relatively quick an easy. But underneath I found a lot of leveling compound. And where the leveling compound pulled off the floor, I could see rust. The floor was rusting underneath the leveling compound. I stupidly decided to "fix" this, pull up the leveling compound, and paint the floor with rust inhibiting paint. Like my home repair jobs, I underestimated the work involved.
Getting up the leveling compound was a nasty job, eventually someone lent me a electric chisel thingy. This took about 10 hours. The compound came up in small chunks, leaving a thin layer on the metal. Another person lent me a deck crawler (deck growler)? Never heard of the thing before. It turned an impossible job into just a real sucky job. Another 8 hours. Got two coats of iron oxide primer down. And a top coat of green to protect the primer. I am happy at this point because hopefully the progression is slowed. But due to the welds between sections and a few plates (maybe to remove the batterries?) the floor is very uneven.
During this maintenance saga a surface ship vet wandered by told me that during the war the boat would not have been tiled. Because tile could be flammable. And also make emergency maintenance more difficult.
Did the boats have tile?
Do your boats have tile over leveling compound?
Any problems with rust on the floor?
Now I need to think about what to do next. The host of the Lionfish (Battle ship cove) is unlikely to hire someone to tile the boat. But if someone wanted to tile, they would again have to deal with the uneven floor. Maybe these days 1/4 underlayment would be used instead of leveling compound. But the underlayment would have to be glued to the metal? Maybe the adhesive wouldn't like the paint I just lovingly applied. Some wood floors can float, I think the sections snap together. I haven't heard of underlayment that snaps together.
Thanx,
Drew
Pages: [1] 2