SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
Individual Submarine Boards => USS Batfish (SS-310) => Topic started by: Mark Sarsfield on February 27, 2008, 12:35:27 PM
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Some of you have already seen this, but for those of you that haven't, this is the current condition of the Batfish's 1MC/7MC inter-communications stack...
http://www.352nd-mlha.com/Batfish%201MC/index.html (http://www.352nd-mlha.com/Batfish%201MC/index.html)
We need copies of the blue prints and manuals for the MI-2590 and MI-2845 signal generators and the MI-2877A voltage amplifiers. Also, if anyone has spare parts for a 1MC MI-2181-F2 box, that would help us a lot, too. You can see what is missing in this photo...
(http://www.352nd-mlha.com/Batfish%201MC/DSCF0040.JPG)
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I have not forgotten about the diagrams for the 1MC. I will send an email to Gil Bohanan who is the Torsk Historian. He has the key to the goodies. Just a matter of how to get a copy to you if possible.
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Any which way you can. ;D The best would be to mail the copies to the Batfish museum address. They're the keeper of the prints.
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I have spoken with Gil. He said our original is quite warn and was hard to read. At any rate, Gil believes Chief Bill has a copy of it that was created when the 1MC was being worked on. We are not dead in the water yet. Gil will not be on the boat this weekend so I can not take a look-see. I'm still on the case hang tight! The Batfish waited for you over 65 years, what is a few more weeks :D
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Hey Mark, have a good time tomorrow working on the Batfish. I hope that we get good inspection ratings this time from the Navy, even though they really don't care.
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My grandmother died on Thursday and I'll actually be in PA for the funeral. :-[ My next attempt will be March 15.
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My grandmother died on Thursday and I'll actually be in PA for the funeral. :-[
Sorry to hear that, I know it's difficult.
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Sorry to hear that Mark. It is painful.
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Sorry to here about your family member passing.
On the lighter side, Chief Bill has your 1MC diagrams, not only that, he has them in Adobe form and I will email them to you for your printing!!!!! I hope to have them this week.
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Some notes for you on the 1MC from Chief Bill and also known as Geezerchief:
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Chris,
The1/7 MC pages I have on the computer are not the complete manual. I thought that I had completed the copy job, but I guess not. I suppose that I copied what I thought what we needed as the time. Been almost 2 years since I copied the manual.
I am sending you the schematic, it will get them started. I will put the pages I have on a CD and give it to you next Saturday.
I will also pull the manual out of achives and copy what I think what they can use to get them started and I will put that on a CD also. Eventually I will be able to send them the complete manual on CD and they can print their copy from that.
Some thoughts:
They have a good ways to go until they will have a working 1/7 MC stack. It will be a long term job (think years not day and months) and the frustration level will be high.
First, they need to do a very good job of cleaning the equipment.
Tell them to be careful about cleaning the tubes, I noticed on the forum that someone said "Yeah when I went in to polish the tubes in the summer, I would put one layer of polisher on and clean it up, and then another layer of dirt would pop up." If they clean too well, the tube numbers will be removed. Those old tubes ar fragile and need to be handled with care, particularly the 809's and 866's.
Then they need to look at the wiring and replace all frayed and brittle wiring. The tubes need to be tested and replaced as necessary. Some tubes (809's and 866's) cannot be tested as most new tube testers don't have the sockets necessary. When we got the system working, we tested all the non-testable tubes by replacing one tube at a time to see what spare tubes were good and which were not. Of course, if they have no spares then that doesn't apply.
We can talk about the above next weekend if you like and if you are going to be aboard.
Bill
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Some notes for you on the 1MC from Chief Bill and also known as Geezerchief:
?
Chris,
The1/7 MC pages I have on the computer are not the complete manual. I thought that I had completed the copy job, but I guess not. I suppose that I copied what I thought what we needed as the time. Been almost 2 years since I copied the manual.
I am sending you the schematic, it will get them started. I will put the pages I have on a CD and give it to you next Saturday.
I will also pull the manual out of achives and copy what I think what they can use to get them started and I will put that on a CD also. Eventually I will be able to send them the complete manual on CD and they can print their copy from that.
Some thoughts:
They have a good ways to go until they will have a working 1/7 MC stack. It will be a long term job (think years not day and months) and the frustration level will be high.
First, they need to do a very good job of cleaning the equipment.
Tell them to be careful about cleaning the tubes, I noticed on the forum that someone said "Yeah when I went in to polish the tubes in the summer, I would put one layer of polisher on and clean it up, and then another layer of dirt would pop up." If they clean too well, the tube numbers will be removed. Those old tubes ar fragile and need to be handled with care, particularly the 809's and 866's.
Then they need to look at the wiring and replace all frayed and brittle wiring. The tubes need to be tested and replaced as necessary. Some tubes (809's and 866's) cannot be tested as most new tube testers don't have the sockets necessary. When we got the system working, we tested all the non-testable tubes by replacing one tube at a time to see what spare tubes were good and which were not. Of course, if they have no spares then that doesn't apply.
We can talk about the above next weekend if you like and if you are going to be aboard.
Bill
Hey AVG, inform him that when I was talking about tubes, I meant torpedo tubes not the tubes in the 1mc stack. lol.
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If you polish them enough you can take the imprinted name off also. LOL. I emailed the diagrams to Mark.
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Oh, yea I know that, I only polished those parts once.
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We need copies of the blue prints and manuals for the MI-2590 and MI-2845 signal generators and the MI-2877A voltage amplifiers. Also, if anyone has spare parts for a 1MC MI-2181-F2 box, that would help us a lot, too. You can see what is missing in this photo...
Mark - you may try to get in touch with Rich Pekelney. He works with the PAMPANITO in SF. I met him when he came and visited the BATFISH.
My last email address for him is: pekelney@rspeng.com
I know he has a lot of info that may be helpful.
Mark
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Thanks, guys. The schematic that Chris sent was fairly legible and has a handy parts list on the right side. My main concern is getting access to the 23 capacitors in each amplifier to remove and replace them. Once we have more specs from the Torsk, I'll start picking Rich's brain for details. Bill from the Torsk sounds pretty knowledgeable, too.
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Mark, you have email. Chief Bill will work with you directly via email. Any questions you have he will answered to the best of his ability. Bill also has other schematics and diagrams. If anyone can help you with this, Bill is your man. Good Luck!
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Well, this is great news. This year is going to be great for the Batfish. So many projects are making progress, many are being finished. Can not wait to see what those schematics yield, hopefully we will not have too much trouble with it.
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Glad I could get you someone with the know how and paperwork. It will be very cool to hear her hum to life. Keep me posted!
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Bill is very knowledgable. Surprisingly, he's not aware of the capacitors being replaced. They replaced some hand-wound resistors and a transformer recently blew. I'm thinking that a lot of the 1MC problems on the Torsk is probably due to old capacitors. Those wax/cardboard jobs were never designed to have a long life and sometimes they fuse shut when they blow and act like a wire, instead of a capacitor. I'm surprised that they got it running at all with them still installed.
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It might be magic!!!! It is good to know that both of you can exchange some information on things. Two heads are better then one!!!! What is more amazing is the fact they took these things to war!!! So, you learn something and we learn something. That is always a good thing.
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Yeah. Thanks for hooking me up with Bill. I think a lot of people on here will benefit from what we find out.
I'm also going to tackle/oversee getting the radio shack fully operational, again. This will be easier, because the radios are portable and can be worked on in a shop. My plan is to put some announcements out on ham radio web sites to see if any old Hams in NE OK want a crack at restoring the military radios.
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Yeah, Bill was firing up something electrical this weekend. Not sure what but heard there was smoke. :o
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In an email he mentioned that the Torsk's 1MC stack had blown a transformer, but it sounded like that had happened a while ago.
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I'm not sure what is going with the 1MC. I spend my time in the engine rooms. If I run into any wiring I just lick my finger and touch it to see if it is hot. :o I think Bill was firing up some of the radio equipment in the radio room. I'm not sure if he got any results.
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The 1MC manual came in the mail on Saturday from Bill. Very handy item to have. Our equipment is a newer model than what is shown in the manual, but it's close enough to know what to repair and how to operate the machinery.
My first plan of attack is to remove and repair the glass tubes and then test all vacuum tubes. Next step will be to replace all resistors for Signal Generator 1 and Amplifier Channel A. Step 3 is to test the capacitors. Step 4 will be to try to replace some missing test buttons and a meter.
After that, I can't really juice the thing up until they have power running to the I.C. switch board, again. I know that it took the Torsk years to get theirs working, but the only thing realy holding me back is lack of power. I don't think it will take me very long to solder in new resistors.
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Bill said he mailed you the manual. I hope it helps. Bill was busy pulling tubes and checking them on a radio this weekend. I think all the radios and receivers in the radio room on the Torsk are just about functional. Keep us updated on your progress!!
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Will do. I really appreciate Bill's help, as well as some of the other volunteers that have answered my undending wave of questions.
Radios are another project that we need to tackle. Resistors and capacitors will have to be tackled in those things, but you can take them home one at a time and they don't weigh 600 lbs. like the 1MC stack does. :o
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I have been reading through the 1MC manual and RCA did a very good job of not only explaining how the system works, but showing you where all of the electrical components are and what the major ones do to make the machine run. For instance, I now know that a timing motor and relay # K20-G (I think) allow the tubes to warm up for one minute and prevent the 1MC/7MC from being operated until that motor hits a contact and opens up the bypass relay. I also know which relays are for the the bridge reproducer, which operate the 1MC circuits, which operate the 7MC circuits, which are tied to Channel A amp and Channel B amp, etc. I can actually pin-point a specific item to repair, knowing that it will fix a certain unit. They even tell you which vacuum tubes produce the different alarm noises. Very cool stuff.
So, my plan of attack for the 1MC is as follows:
1. Remove, clean, test, and maybe repair vacuum tubes - glass tubes can be reglued at the base.
2. Focus efforts on Signal Generator #1 and Power Amp. A (top amp).
3. Replace all accesible resistors in above items.
4. Test and replace, as necessary, the ten 1-microfarad, 250V capacitors in Amp A - I recently purchased a used Heathkit capacitor tester for pretty cheap.
5. Replace the missing test buttons and meter on the control panel - these can be used to activate the different alarms when the signal generator is set to test mode. :)
6. Install working vacuum tubes.
7. Remove, strip, and repaint alarm contactor face plates/handles.
8. Install new screws and bolts into the alarm contactor face plates.
9. Once power is restored to the I.C. Switch Panel, turn it on and debug any other problems.
Long -term restoration would include restoring Sig. Gen. 2 and Amp. B as stated above (redundant systems), reconnecting any disconnected alarm contactors back into the 1MC (if we can gain access behind the unit), restoring the reproducer and switch box on the bridge and running new wires to those items on the bridge, and finding replacement parts for the 1MC mic box in the control room. Mainly, we just need a microphone to get it working again and the switch needs a little TLC.
Resistors are cheap and most of them are easily accessible for removal and repalcement. Many NOS (new old stock) vacuum tubes have been donated to the cause, as well. So, I don't think that it will cost us anything but time to get steps 1 through 8 completed - 9 may be a different story. If someone wants to tackle steps 7 and 8, knock yourself out. Just mark down where the wires were connected to the back of the contactors before disconnecting them and use the right color when you repaint said contactor. :)
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Mark:
Give me a shout at ft236@hotmail.com. I will put you in contact with the guy who put the Silversides 1MC back in working order some 25 years ago. He knows quite a bit about the 7MC as well.
Fred
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Done.
Also, here's the Heathkit C-3 Condenser Checker that I got for $15.00. It checks resistors, too. http://www.heathkit-museum.com/test/hvmc-3.shtml
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Yeah. Thanks for hooking me up with Bill. I think a lot of people on here will benefit from what we find out.
I'm also going to tackle/oversee getting the radio shack fully operational, again. This will be easier, because the radios are portable and can be worked on in a shop. My plan is to put some announcements out on ham radio web sites to see if any old Hams in NE OK want a crack at restoring the military radios.
Mark,
I am all for this, but just be sure you work with Sam Whitley and the radio guys on this. They have laid claim on the compartment and I do not want to make them feel that they are being run off. I do think that this may get them moving again and working on in there.
Rick
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I ran this by them several weeks ago and they all gave me 2 thumbs up. I posted a "help wanted" ad on the Antique Radios forum, but no one on there is from Tulsa/eastern OK. Still, they are a great source of informationa nd experience/knowledge base.
My next step is to put ads on some amateur radio websites to see if any hams in the area have an interest in working on the radios.
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Good deal. I may have even seen that come through my email but just forgot about it.
Too much desil fumes I guess.