SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
Individual Submarine Boards => USS Batfish (SS-310) => Topic started by: Mark Sarsfield on April 21, 2008, 03:13:32 PM
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I emailed the FCC about the Batfish radar. I want to know if we need a license and what kind to operate it. I told them that the boat already has an amateur club call sign, that it is on dry land, and that the set is an antique (circa 1945) and may be one of a kind - I don't know of many SS radar sets in existence, let alone operational.
For a real ship, it would have to have a certain type of license (PG, DM, T1, or T2) and then someone on board would also have to pass a radar theory/operation exam, which would add a caveat/addendum to the license saying that the ship is licensed to repair and operate radar.
I will let you know what the FCC says.
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IMHO - sometimes it's better to ask forgiveness than permission.
Assume that we get the RADAR working...who's going to take the test? How much is a license going to cost the museum (or individual).
I hope I'm wrong, but this could be opening a can of worms...when we don't even know if it will work again.
What we really don't need is more government regulatory control...again...IMHO.
Mark A.
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I'd like to suggest checking with some Cobia-types, including the gent who got their SJ back in working order.
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Mark A.,
I agree that more government is always bad. However, the FCC is a stickler about transmiters and all you need is someone with an old TV antenna to complain about radar interference and the next thing you know the FCC is slapping a fine on the museum. A visitor to the boat may also rat us out, if they know enough about radio licensing and realize that we're operating without a license - some of these guys won't think twice about making that phone call - 1984 anybody? The current FCC commisioner has made it his Holy Grail to hunt down illegal transmitting activity. They sniff out and fine people all of the time using direction finding (DF) equipment - illegal amateur radio and C.B. traffic is a constant problem. Even two ham radio operators can sniff out a transmitter using directional antennas from their vehicles - called fox hunting.
I did emphasize to the feds that the unit was non-operational and we were only guessing that some day it would be working again.
I think I already asked the Cobia about operating their radar. I didn't get a definitive answer.
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Wow this is a biggie.
I as that you all let me know before you all start stirring up the politicians. I already have 1 state rep 2 senators and a EEOD rep hammaring Washingto about a 30 foot peice of steal that we are trying to get. I also need to know what projects you all are picking up before you take them on. This is to make sure that we do not step on anyones toes.
Mark S
I caution you on taking on too many projects at once. It is very easy to do and I do not want to see you get burned out. I already have you on the 1MC, setting up the antena as well as working on the reenactors crew. Remember the deck project, at the end of May....
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I'm used to working with the government and any time that they get involved, things get dragged waaaayyyy out. I "stirred the pot" with the FCC, because it will take them a while to respond and it gives us one more piece of the puzzle for future reference. I didn't want to give the impression that I was going to start ripping the radar apart next week. I apologize for not clearing the contact with you, first, though.
As for 1MC, I'm holding of on that until we get work benches set up in the battery compartment. I want to dismantle the monster and work on it down there. it will be my "come and go" project as I get time and materials to replace certain things. I will probably rip out Amplifier A and get it working, first.
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Mark A
I forgot where we were talking about the crew pic. I could not read the name. One is definately there, but it it written in black ink on a dark part of the pic.
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Mark A
I forgot where we were talking about the crew pic. I could not read the name. One is definately there, but it it written in black ink on a dark part of the pic.
Thanks...I'll pass that along.
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Still no word from the FCC, but no news is good news. They're obviously too busy to care about us and I don't intend to ask them, again.
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The FCC finally wrote back to us and they don't want to get involved with the radar. Here is exactly what they wrote to me in an email:
You are receiving this email in response to your inquiry to the FCC.
Dear Mr. Sarsfield,
The National Telecommunications and Information Administration's (NTIA) Office of Spectrum Management (OSM) is responsible for managing the Federal Government's use of the radio frequency spectrum.
The FCC does not license Federal Government agencies or the U.S. military. Licensing, frequency allocation, and call signs for federal agencies and the military services are handled through the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) in conjunction with Interdepartmental Radio Advisory Committee (IRAC).
NTIA
14th & Constitution Ave, SW
Washington, DC 20230
202-482-1132
202-482-0599 (IRAC)
You can not use the amateur call sign with a marine radio.
Rep Number : TSR54
Not sure why they threw that last statement in there. I never mentioned marine radios. The vintage radio equipment on the Batfish would be considered amateur radio gear at this point, provided that it transmits within certain amateur radio bands. Receivers don't need licenses.
I have never dealt with the NTIA nor the IRAC. Not really sure if we want to, at this point.
Anyway, I will forward the email to Rick for safe keeping. If the FCC decides that some day that they want to butt their noses into our business, we'll wave this email under their big nose.
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Another thought. Talk to Mike Anderson at the Muskogee air field just before we fire this thing up. If anyone will complain it will the the airfields. That way he knows a little bit about what is going on and if there is a problem we do not piss them off more by makeing them look for it.
Rick
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Another thought, if this is restored back to original specs, tha average range wasn't more than about a mile depending on weather conditions etc.. I have connections with Muskogee Davis Field thanks to the military and will stop by and talk to them before long. It shouldn't screw with their ATC or radar as long as it's not on their same frequency. I have all of my flight maps out spread around me looking at all the frequencies. I'll make a list of all the surrounding, ATC and Military frequencies in that area. We need to watch the Military ones as well since the "Fish" is along the flight path my unit takes to Camp Gruber.
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Correy,
JP-1a radar went out about 30 miles on a good day. Was definitley worse on lousy days. We have SS-2 radar on board, though. I'm sure a lot of improvements were made to radar by then. I would assume a transmission/interference radius at least 40 to 50 miles. Frequency will definitely be key. We don't want to jam the military's surface or air radar.
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I'll check with Tinker to find out what freqs. they use so we don't jam them either. The army boys (and even Gruber) don't have a radar system but they do have a system that picks up radar signals and compares it to a database of known signatures. We might be mistaken for a MANPAD or enemy SAM and I really don't want to be mistaken for one of those. We need to find out what frequency it emits and check it through the FAA from the standpoint that we may need to get a TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction) when we plan on using it.
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OK guys, If I see blackhawks or f15's straffing the deck, I WILL NOT BE ON BOARD. My loyalties only go so far. :2funny:
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And miss that type of photo op?
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Am I reading too much into this that someone may be close to get this thing working???
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I think that someone wants to try.
My concern is that we're on the flight path of the blackhawk unit in Tulsa when they're going to Gruber and we don't really know what frequencies we will be painting the state with and we might accidentally paint the hawks with the wrong freq. If they get a strong dose of the wrong frequency, there's a chance that we could freak out the fly-by-wire systems and turn one into a lawn dart.
If and when we get it working, even if it isn't required by the FCC, it needs to be operated by a trained person ONLY. We might also check with the FAA to see about adding a flight restricted area within a certain radius since the frequency can be changed by the operator. I don't want to be the one responsible for bringing down an aircraft. It isn't probable but it is possible.
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Food for thought folks, when you get to the point of powering it up and transmitting contact the airport tower so they can do a notice to aviators that you will be testing your radar system on this freq, that way no one freaks out and calls the FAA and FCC
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I don't want to be the one responsible for bringing down an aircraft.
But think of the publicity :D ;D
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Just to be on the safe side, we might just go ahead and file a TFR below 1000 ft AGL for the area on the day we intend to test it out. This should make doubly sure that no one accidentally stumbles into a test. I'll also alert my unit so they don't fly through doing an MTF or something.
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What unit are you with???? I was a 15 X,Y instructor at Eustis for a while (still here but not teaching anymore)
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REALLY??? I had a couple of X-Rays as roommates at Eustis. I took the 67 (now 15 T) classes. I'm with B co. 2/285th Air Assault out of Tulsa. I've been a crewchief with them for about 7 years. I can't really remember my instructors names, I think SFC Bowers was my senior instructor if I remember right. I was in C co. 1/222 and going through classes when the hurricane hit about 7 years ago. Wow, small world.
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I came here the first time for 68X training 10 years ago and came back 4 years ago to teach 68 X, Y and transition course to Y.. I have had students from Okla come through and was wondering if I was one of your instructors. Good luck with the Batfish, come on over to the school of the boat posts and catch up.. I don't teach down to anyone and every tuesday there is a new one (IF I can make the time) The TM (Tech Manual not Torpedoman for all of you Navy folks) that we use for this is available online and that is at www.hnsa.org and that is the fleet submarine manual and this is an open book school of the boat with the forum open for all to answer on. And yes I am qualified on submarines also
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Where do I find the school of the boat? I have about 30 other guys that need to take your class too. I may start pushing them over your way.
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from the main forum page, look for "Submarine Related Chatter"
You'll see "Child Board" and the link to the School of the Boat page.
Mark A.