SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
Individual Submarine Boards => USS Batfish (SS-310) => Topic started by: Mark Sarsfield on April 06, 2008, 09:54:03 AM
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I can't remember if the T-post (looks like a clothes line post) is stil installed at the stern of the Batfish or not. It would be forward of the aft stairwell leading to the aft torp. room.
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Why yes, Yes it is.......
Rick
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On the Drum the long wire antenna was located fwd when the deck gun was aft and aft when the deck gun was fwd, it is fun trying to figure out all the changes she went through and what it looked like on each patrol.
Tom bowser
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That is a good point about the deck gun and the 5" gun is pretty big. Rick, what end of the boat is the deck gun going on? I'm guessing that it used to be mounted forward, since the t-post is aft. My only concern is whether guests can easily walk past it up there to get to the forward stairwell without banging their face or head into it.
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I'm guessing that it used to be mounted forward
From pictures I've seen, the deck gun was mounted aft of the bridge
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That is a good question for the reunion guys. The T post is not permanently mounted in any way. 2 guys and 20 minutes will move it to the location of our choice. I have not decided where to place the deck gun at this time. This is a big job. We have to keep in mind that the one we have was configured as a shore battery. We will need to remove all of the decking that is built up around us.
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If the post is easy to move AND there is a hole for it near the bow, then I can set up the antennas in either location and easily move them, if need be. I'm going to run the idea past all of the boat hams (I have their email addresses at work).
Are the antenna connections into the hull forward or aft of the bridge? I guess it really doesn't matter, since we can run coax as far as we need to under the deck. It would be nice if there are some connections on the bridge, since that would be an ideal place to hook them up.
Finally, a project that I can accomplish in the short term. :)
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I just got an email from one of the hams (Warren Hurd) asking about the model of the receiver that is currently sitting in the museum storage room/office. He likes the idea of hooking long wires back up on the boat.
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I will try to remember to check tomorrow. I am in the middle of moving and everything is a jumble right now. I would like to see rigging back on the boat. Running lights would look good too. Maybe something to be seen on the freeway at night.....
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Mark:
If you want I think I can find pictures for you from the Cobia. The original long wire is installed and ran to the T-post on the stern. It's feed thru is about in the center of the conning tower, and then appears in the radio room for distribution to many locations. We have not tried to use this long wire since the appearance in the radio room is a bit complicated. We use two end fed dipoles for 20 & 40, one to the T-post aft and the other to the bow light. We must put them up for each event (not permanent). But we usually get the job done in about 20 minutes. We have on occasion put up an all band vertical on the stern T-pole, and a 2 meter ant. on the conning tower. Let me know if the pictures would be of any help.
K0EFV Tom USMC
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Tom, a picture of the connection point on the bridge (probably somwhere around the scope housing) would be very beneficial for us. We still have the original antenna connections on the ceiling of the radio room and I'm guessing that the coax is still in place to the bridge, but we'll figure it out quickly with a continuity check.
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Running lights would look good too. Maybe something to be seen on the freeway at night.....
Agreed. There's standing water in the both port and stardboard light sockets, right now. The housings need a new rubber seal and some new glass, too. I'm assuming thatthe wires are still connected to the switch box in the CT, if they haven't be rerouted or replaced by other light fixtures. I don't know if we still have a stern light, anymore, and I haven't looked at the bow light.
I think this would be a fairly easy project, since it's just lighting. Worst case scenario is that we run new wire to the lamps.
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Mark:
I have some better than these but couldn't find them real quick. As I recall the entrance bubble was like a heavy insulator material. I will look for a better view.
K0EFV Tom USMC
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We still have the antenna bubbles on each side of the superstructure. I figured that they played a role in the antenna set-up. It's nice seeing one actually installed. I could use some photos (if possible) of where the lines run on the other side of the bubbles and their entry points into the hull. It may not be very accessible, though. I will have to rig up soem insulators for attaching them to the superstructure, too. We may not have the "arms" sticking out of the superstructure to attach them to, but we could easily replicate and weld on new ones.
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Mark;
You know I don't ever recall looking on the inside the bubble . Bad news is I won't be going up untill June this year for the museum ships event. I am not sure yet if Aschenbrenner wil be up there as we planned to put the WWII radios on for the event. I will have to start a list of things to take pictures of. Do you ever see Sam Whitley around the sub? The Batfish puts out one hell of a signal when they put the beam ant on. I still do the certificate requests for WW2SUB. If you run intoSam say hi for me. I have shirttail relatives living in Muskogee. They operate a custom clothing production business, Tshirts, embroidery, caps, jackets, patches, uniforms and the whole nine yards. I think I will have to have Linda do me an extra special Batfish shirt. I just turned 81 and wonder how much longer I can keep up the pace. My best to all you guys
K0EFV Tom USMC
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I have exchanged e-mails with Sam, but I don't think that we have met, yet.
Not a big deal about photographing the internal coax. I'll be at the boat twice next month.
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One thing that would help us out is if you got some up-close photos of the support insulatiors that attach the long wire to the t-post and the side of the superstructure. We'll probably have to fabricate something that resembles what you guys have.
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Tom,
What gauge wire would you guess that the Cobia's wire antenna is? It appears to be stranded copper.
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Mark:
I can only offer a guess #10. If you look at the photo I sent the temp antenna is RG-58 or 59U, and the long wire looks to be about the same size.
K0EFV
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Okay. I've seen #8 wire for sale on ebay and a lot of smaller stuff like 12 and 14. I'll keep a look out for #10.
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Rick,
In all of that free time that you have (joke), I was wondering if you could get a rough measurement for me from the t-post to one of the antenna posts sticking out of the side of the superstructure near the porcelain antenna feed hole? If we don't have any, then I guess Vaughn has one more project. ::)
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Mark S
I paced off 115 ft from the after mounting. and 80 ft from the forward mounting. I ususally end up just a tad over, so this should give you some good numbers.
Rick.
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Cool. I found some #8 THHN (stranded) wire on eBay. 142' for $58 with shipping. $.41 per foot isn't bad seeing how expensive copper has gotten.
Does UPS deliver to the museum? I might be able to get the guy to ship it directly there.
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Yes they do. I will be happy to stor it until you get to it.
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Okay. I will verify with the seller that it will be okay to ship to you. Is the park rd. address adequate for UPS to find the museum?
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Yes, The seem to know we are out here.
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I bought the #8 wire this morning and gave them the physical address to the park. I made sure to give them the 74403 zip code, too, but UPS should find it, either way. I emphasized that the Postal Service does not deliver to that address. I doubt that they will use them, though, since UPS is generally cheaper on heavy items.
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No problem. If they do use USPS. It will be at the post office when I pick it up on tuesday.
Rick
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I can't remember if the T-post (looks like a clothes line post) is stil installed at the stern of the Batfish or not. It would be forward of the aft stairwell leading to the aft torp. room.
Here is a photo of the Batfish with the T post forward (port side). There is another post w/ wire starboard side.
This might help in determining where to place the T post.
Just an FYI.
Mark
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There's a decommissioning photo that also shows a center T-Post on the bow. We have several configurations to choose from. A center post forward or aft, would probably be better than the two-post configuration, since the public has to walk along the edge of the boat to reach the bow stairwell. It just looks like the wires would be more in the way, but I'll have to run some plumb line and map it out.
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Either way...it's going to be a sweet addition. Can't wait to see it installed
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Me, too, and it's such a simple project. I've hooked up several ham radio wires in the past that take no more than an hour to get working and we're not having to climb any trees this time. :)
Btw, Rick, here's the UPS tracking number for the 142' of wire on its way to the museum: 1Z421R7R0341609789. Mark me down as donating $58 worth of wire in the log books.
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Mark S
You got it. just bring me a copy of the receipt for our records. I do not think that the new accountant does not realize just how much is donated here. We are alread well over $1k for this year alone in misc donations of paint and supplies and equipment.
With the wire antena, can we remove the stand up antena that the hams leave on the boat? One or two of them seem to forget to take it down when they are done. :angel:
Also lest try and keep the wire shored up and out of the way. I am a real wire freek when it comes to this. I spent too many years chasing wires in a tangled rats nest when I was working on computers.
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can we remove the stand up antena that the hams leave on the boat?
Yes...I understand what they do and why they do it...but they need to remember to take their stuff down when finished. Nothing detracts more from the scheme we are trying to portray than to see what looks like a TV antenna on the bow of the sub.
Hopefully they'll be able to use this new antenna ???
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Charlie Hoy was toying with the idea of using the antenna for transmitting. I told him that it would have to wait until after hours, because you don't want people standing next to a radiator while it's transmitting. Especially, if they fire up the amplifier.
The vertical dipole antenna that they accidentally leave up all of the time is probably used on a different band than the long wire. So, they will still probably want to use it. I think they hinted at moving all antennas onto shore and running coax to them, but they need to be nudged, again, to do this themselves or to let you guys move it to a location that they are comfortable with. I think it could mount on the side of the antenna tower (vertically), since the tower is aluminum and shouldn't interfere with the wave propagation too much.
The wire will be already coiled up and zip-tied. It should be easy to store/hide until we get a new mast built and installed forward. Weight is about 8 lbs.
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Mark S
I agree that these antena should be placed on the mast off the boat. Running coax onto the boat is easy enough to hide and explain away. I will prod Sam again and see if that is something they are willing to do.
Also I may have found a source of scrap steel. If you are looking for parts and pieces, give me the dimensions. I will forward it onto my new guy and see what we can do. This curtisy of one of the ghost hunters......
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Cool. I'll post a request in the general submarine discussion thread to get dismensions and part specs from some of the other boats.
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but I can show you what I think they did to convert this to a submarine deck gun
OK, we can take a look on Saturday. I just don't want to put it on the sub just because we have it. I've been looking for a photo of it but can't find it. From memory, it just seems too big, but like I said, I can't remember exactly what it looks like. I know the first photo I posted was a deck gun, I have several war time photos with ones just like it. I would prefer just to keep it realistic if at all possible.
Also, we may have to prioritize projects. Travis has the escape hatch, Mark S. has a whole bunch of stuff...Vaughn is working the sink hole, and we are working the 40mm...then starting the video stuff. We need more bodies as this renovation of that gun is going to take a loooooooong time.
My 2 cents. I'll help in any way I can.
Thanks!!
Mark A.
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Deck Gun would get attention after the decking and painting happen. I was just getting a feel for its placement so that I knew where to put the antennas.
Right now, I have the 1MC and radio-related items, including the antenna. The latter are pretty easy to handle - I'm not messing with the huge transmitter. I wouldn't mind tinkering with the SS radar set, either, but I'll let you guys handle the rotating motor. The persicopes are wishful thinking, right now. I really think that we need some hydraulics gurus to start working on that system. Plus, we still pretty much lack any real power to the boat, minus lighting and electrical outlets. Some of these things eat a lot of juice.
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UPS tried to deliver the wire today, but the note ontheir website said that the museum was closed. They will try to deliver again on Wednesday. After that they might send it back.
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T Posts
Here are some photos of our t bpost.
The top bar is 2" diameter 31" long, the side ears are 4 1/2" long
The diaginal posts are 2" dia. set back 3 " from ends
the top vertical pipe is 2 1/2 and 25 1/2 " long
Next section is 2 3/4" dia 33" long
Next section is 3 1/4" dia 17 1/4"
Hope this helps
Tom Bowser
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Rick,
Is this enough information to get the Vo-Tech or one of our metal working gurus to fabricate this? Another questions is how ours will mount to the deck. This one looks like it's welded to the deck, rather than fitting into a post hole. I was under the impression that the Batfish's current version fits into a hole, but that could strictly be a 1950's design. We should probably mimick this one. I think we already have the bow light mounted to another post. So, that's one less thing to worry about.
Tom,
Thank you for the information. By the way, the other straight post to the left is another antenna post. Usually 3 wire antannes were run forward, but I think only two were run aft.
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The T post on the Drum was most likely set in a socket originally but when they replace the wood deck with steel channel they put it right over the sockets, the park hasn't tried to preserve originalality for some time so We are going back and putting things right as we can. Thanks for the input on the other post. Let me know if you need more detailed info on anything.
Tom Bowser
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Roger that. We'll let you know if we need anymore close-up photos of a particular item.
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Mark S.
Believe it or not, I have been following this. I think we need to take a closer look at the Batfish to verify some of this data. I am running into some descrepancies that do not make sense to me....
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What have you discovered that is not making much sense?
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The design of the t post that we have and the location of what I was thinking were post holes. They are not jiving too well with the photos that I am getting back.
On a side not, we do have the base of the hydrophon in place. This will save some work in the future...
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The base of the hydrophone? You mean the pipe portion? I knew that was there.
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Any luck figuring out how/where to mount the forward antenna posts? We still need to get some dimensions from Tom for the straight antenna post on the Drum.
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I will get those this weekend
Tom Bowser
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Thanks, Tom.
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Mark S
Attached are photos of the post and here are the dimensions
79" tall deck to top
bottom pipe 18" tall 3 1/4 OD
next section 33" 2 3/4 OD
top section 28" 21/4 OD
Let me know if you need more ddetails on the fitting flanges, etc, if so I will scetch them, scan them and send them.
Tom Bowser
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The photos and dimensions should be enough for a welder to work with. It's good enough for government work. :) Thanks!