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Museum Submarine Discussion / how long would the batteries last on a balao running submerged at flank speed?
« on: December 04, 2016, 09:30:49 PM »
I am sure I have come across the answer but I haven't been able to find it again. My not very good memory thinks about an hour.
I would also like a reference if anyone has one.
The wiki for Becuna says (Submerged: 15.0 knots (27.8 km/h) for ?1?2 hour), but I think that is for a Guppy configuration with Sargo II batteries.
Thanx,
Drew
I would also like a reference if anyone has one.
The wiki for Becuna says (Submerged: 15.0 knots (27.8 km/h) for ?1?2 hour), but I think that is for a Guppy configuration with Sargo II batteries.
Thanx,
Drew
3
Museum Submarine Discussion / looking for drawings/info on free flooding deck plates
« on: October 09, 2016, 05:53:21 PM »
Included is a picture I found on the web of the Ling's (SS-297) metal deck. The deck appears to be in its original configuration.
The Lionfish (SS-298) and the Ling are both Cramp boats, and I am guessing the Lionfish's aft deck once looked like the Ling. I found a picture of a ceremony on the Lionfish that showed the deck aft of the 5 inch gun was metal. Now the Lionfish's deck is a mutant patchwork.
I would like to know how the deck plates aligned with the sub frame, and how the plates were attached to the frame. I looked at the scanned drawings of the Pompanito, but I didn't find anything to help. I don't know if the Pompanito had metal deck plates.
Any ideas where to look for info? (besides swimming up the Hackensack river and sneaking onto the Ling)
Thanx,
Drew
The Lionfish (SS-298) and the Ling are both Cramp boats, and I am guessing the Lionfish's aft deck once looked like the Ling. I found a picture of a ceremony on the Lionfish that showed the deck aft of the 5 inch gun was metal. Now the Lionfish's deck is a mutant patchwork.
I would like to know how the deck plates aligned with the sub frame, and how the plates were attached to the frame. I looked at the scanned drawings of the Pompanito, but I didn't find anything to help. I don't know if the Pompanito had metal deck plates.
Any ideas where to look for info? (besides swimming up the Hackensack river and sneaking onto the Ling)
Thanx,
Drew
4
Museum Submarine Discussion / Balao length
« on: April 12, 2016, 09:50:48 PM »
311 9+1/16
Thanx to having the plans on line I can see
http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ss298.pdf
Let's make it a Balao :-) - Jim
Thanx to having the plans on line I can see
http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/ss298.pdf
Let's make it a Balao :-) - Jim
5
Museum Submarine Discussion / how can water get into aft trim line?
« on: January 10, 2016, 10:38:45 PM »
I have noticed water leaking out of the trim line hose valve in the forward engine room. The valve is located on the port side of the Lionfish. The pipe is about centered in the height dimension of the pressure hull.
I can try to stop the water from coming out of the valve (work on the packing and seal) but I think the valve isn't really the problem. The troubling issue is that somewher there is water getting into the trim line.
I have looked at the documentation (http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/trim/chap2.htm), but it isn't clear to me exactly where the aft trim pipe goes an how many things connect to it.
Any ideas for where to look for the source of the water?
Thanx,
Drew
I can try to stop the water from coming out of the valve (work on the packing and seal) but I think the valve isn't really the problem. The troubling issue is that somewher there is water getting into the trim line.
I have looked at the documentation (http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/trim/chap2.htm), but it isn't clear to me exactly where the aft trim pipe goes an how many things connect to it.
Any ideas for where to look for the source of the water?
Thanx,
Drew
6
Museum Submarine Discussion / out of sight, outa mind?
« on: September 28, 2015, 08:15:47 PM »
The Lionfish's external tanks are stained from rusty water runoff. I would think if we painted them, they would just get stained again until we removed the source of the rust.
I think there are two major sources of the rusty water.
The pressure hull has two troughs (stbd/port) that run bow to stern. They are depressions in the top of the pressure hull. There is no way for the water to escape, so it eventually fills up and overflows down the sides of the tanks. We have standing water in the troughs most of the year. In winter it becomes ice.
The underside of the deck, and the framing super-structure are a rusty mess.
Do you paint the underside of the metal decking?
Is your framing under the deck painted well and rust free?
Have you removed any of the air induction piping aft of the sail to make working below the deck easier?
Do you keep your troughs free of water? How did you do that?
Thanx
I think there are two major sources of the rusty water.
The pressure hull has two troughs (stbd/port) that run bow to stern. They are depressions in the top of the pressure hull. There is no way for the water to escape, so it eventually fills up and overflows down the sides of the tanks. We have standing water in the troughs most of the year. In winter it becomes ice.
The underside of the deck, and the framing super-structure are a rusty mess.
Do you paint the underside of the metal decking?
Is your framing under the deck painted well and rust free?
Have you removed any of the air induction piping aft of the sail to make working below the deck easier?
Do you keep your troughs free of water? How did you do that?
Thanx
7
Museum Submarine Discussion / was tile used during the war?
« on: May 26, 2015, 09:03:31 PM »
The Lionfish is closed for a couple of weeks because the brow got bent during a windy storm. One end of the brow is pinned to a destroyer, the other end has wheels that rest on the Lionfish. The winds caused the brow to get jammed on the Lionfish, and the weld on the pin got partially pulled apart.
The boat is scheduled to be closed only 2 days a year, so the boat being closed for a while due to the brow damage was an opportunity to do something that would take some time. I chose to deal with the tile floor in the crews berthing compartment. The tile was very brittle, and more and more of it was breaking. Pulling up the tile was relatively quick an easy. But underneath I found a lot of leveling compound. And where the leveling compound pulled off the floor, I could see rust. The floor was rusting underneath the leveling compound. I stupidly decided to "fix" this, pull up the leveling compound, and paint the floor with rust inhibiting paint. Like my home repair jobs, I underestimated the work involved.
Getting up the leveling compound was a nasty job, eventually someone lent me a electric chisel thingy. This took about 10 hours. The compound came up in small chunks, leaving a thin layer on the metal. Another person lent me a deck crawler (deck growler)? Never heard of the thing before. It turned an impossible job into just a real sucky job. Another 8 hours. Got two coats of iron oxide primer down. And a top coat of green to protect the primer. I am happy at this point because hopefully the progression is slowed. But due to the welds between sections and a few plates (maybe to remove the batterries?) the floor is very uneven.
During this maintenance saga a surface ship vet wandered by told me that during the war the boat would not have been tiled. Because tile could be flammable. And also make emergency maintenance more difficult.
Did the boats have tile?
Do your boats have tile over leveling compound?
Any problems with rust on the floor?
Now I need to think about what to do next. The host of the Lionfish (Battle ship cove) is unlikely to hire someone to tile the boat. But if someone wanted to tile, they would again have to deal with the uneven floor. Maybe these days 1/4 underlayment would be used instead of leveling compound. But the underlayment would have to be glued to the metal? Maybe the adhesive wouldn't like the paint I just lovingly applied. Some wood floors can float, I think the sections snap together. I haven't heard of underlayment that snaps together.
Thanx,
Drew
The boat is scheduled to be closed only 2 days a year, so the boat being closed for a while due to the brow damage was an opportunity to do something that would take some time. I chose to deal with the tile floor in the crews berthing compartment. The tile was very brittle, and more and more of it was breaking. Pulling up the tile was relatively quick an easy. But underneath I found a lot of leveling compound. And where the leveling compound pulled off the floor, I could see rust. The floor was rusting underneath the leveling compound. I stupidly decided to "fix" this, pull up the leveling compound, and paint the floor with rust inhibiting paint. Like my home repair jobs, I underestimated the work involved.
Getting up the leveling compound was a nasty job, eventually someone lent me a electric chisel thingy. This took about 10 hours. The compound came up in small chunks, leaving a thin layer on the metal. Another person lent me a deck crawler (deck growler)? Never heard of the thing before. It turned an impossible job into just a real sucky job. Another 8 hours. Got two coats of iron oxide primer down. And a top coat of green to protect the primer. I am happy at this point because hopefully the progression is slowed. But due to the welds between sections and a few plates (maybe to remove the batterries?) the floor is very uneven.
During this maintenance saga a surface ship vet wandered by told me that during the war the boat would not have been tiled. Because tile could be flammable. And also make emergency maintenance more difficult.
Did the boats have tile?
Do your boats have tile over leveling compound?
Any problems with rust on the floor?
Now I need to think about what to do next. The host of the Lionfish (Battle ship cove) is unlikely to hire someone to tile the boat. But if someone wanted to tile, they would again have to deal with the uneven floor. Maybe these days 1/4 underlayment would be used instead of leveling compound. But the underlayment would have to be glued to the metal? Maybe the adhesive wouldn't like the paint I just lovingly applied. Some wood floors can float, I think the sections snap together. I haven't heard of underlayment that snaps together.
Thanx,
Drew
8
Museum Submarine Discussion / Lionfish visit notes
« on: April 17, 2013, 10:02:20 PM »
It was a nice warm day in Massachusetts, so I played hookey from work for the afternoon and visited the boat. I think she misses me when I don't visit. Or maybe I have that backwards.
Added to all the tanks, on the outside, are maintenance plates. I can see the work raft near one of the plates, it has been removed (by the Battleship Cove maintenance staff), and the tank is completely filled with water to the access plate. This is a couple of feet above the water line. The maintenance guys told me some of the pipes (I guess vent pipes?) are rusted out, and rain water can enter the tank through the holes in the pipe. Eventually the tank fills. I think they noticed a little list.
For some reason the Battleship Cove people raise the bow planes in winter. I think they believe they are fragile. Hard for me to believe, i have seen pictures with the planes filled with people standing on them. Plus the planes have to be strong enough to raise/lower the boat. One of the staff thought someone told him the planes were made out of balsa wood. That can't be true, can it?
I got the tutorial on how to lower the planes as I watched one of the staff lower them. In the down direction, gravity is our friend, and it took about 5 minutes. Unfortunately the planes are angled to about 35 degrees. The hydraulics aren't functional, and over the years the planes have drifted from 0 degrees, to full rise. When the planes are lowered in this tilted condition, the connecting rods (probably wrong term) scrape against the superstructure making quite a racket.
I think I will try using a small hydraulic car jack and some 2x4 pieces to force the planes back to level, from inside the FTR. I can put the jack above the planes ram, and drive it down. Worth a try.
Added to all the tanks, on the outside, are maintenance plates. I can see the work raft near one of the plates, it has been removed (by the Battleship Cove maintenance staff), and the tank is completely filled with water to the access plate. This is a couple of feet above the water line. The maintenance guys told me some of the pipes (I guess vent pipes?) are rusted out, and rain water can enter the tank through the holes in the pipe. Eventually the tank fills. I think they noticed a little list.
For some reason the Battleship Cove people raise the bow planes in winter. I think they believe they are fragile. Hard for me to believe, i have seen pictures with the planes filled with people standing on them. Plus the planes have to be strong enough to raise/lower the boat. One of the staff thought someone told him the planes were made out of balsa wood. That can't be true, can it?
I got the tutorial on how to lower the planes as I watched one of the staff lower them. In the down direction, gravity is our friend, and it took about 5 minutes. Unfortunately the planes are angled to about 35 degrees. The hydraulics aren't functional, and over the years the planes have drifted from 0 degrees, to full rise. When the planes are lowered in this tilted condition, the connecting rods (probably wrong term) scrape against the superstructure making quite a racket.
I think I will try using a small hydraulic car jack and some 2x4 pieces to force the planes back to level, from inside the FTR. I can put the jack above the planes ram, and drive it down. Worth a try.
9
Museum Submarine Discussion / forward escape hatch light
« on: April 14, 2013, 08:32:03 PM »
The forward escape hatch light doesn't work on the Lionfish. The socket is there, but there isn't any voltage.
The only documentation I have is the NavPers 16162 electrical manual, which isn't much help.
I can follow the wire from the light socket down the hatch and onto the left side of the FTR hull. Then it goes behind the small lockers. I haven't tried tracing it past that point.
Is there a switch for the light somewhere? If so, where is the switch located? Does the switch have a label?
Thanx,
Drew
The only documentation I have is the NavPers 16162 electrical manual, which isn't much help.
I can follow the wire from the light socket down the hatch and onto the left side of the FTR hull. Then it goes behind the small lockers. I haven't tried tracing it past that point.
Is there a switch for the light somewhere? If so, where is the switch located? Does the switch have a label?
Thanx,
Drew
10
Museum Submarine Discussion / How do you inspect beneath the superstructure to the rear of the sail?
« on: April 01, 2013, 09:35:54 PM »
On the Lionfish ...
I have been able to get below the decking around the conning tower and forward. Rust has eaten away some of the supports.
I would like to get a look at the structure aft of the sail, so I can see what problems are there. The air induction pipes take up so much room I can't see in between them.
And I don't think I can squeeze through to get in between the induction pipes. So how do you look in there?
The Lionfish has metal decking that starts forward of the conning tower, and runs aft. Maybe the people who put in the metal decking didn't think about maintenance access.
I have been able to get below the decking around the conning tower and forward. Rust has eaten away some of the supports.
I would like to get a look at the structure aft of the sail, so I can see what problems are there. The air induction pipes take up so much room I can't see in between them.
And I don't think I can squeeze through to get in between the induction pipes. So how do you look in there?
The Lionfish has metal decking that starts forward of the conning tower, and runs aft. Maybe the people who put in the metal decking didn't think about maintenance access.
11
School of the Boat / sonar ping sound
« on: March 10, 2013, 10:44:57 PM »
The Lionfish plays a sonar "ping" sound from the conning tower. The sound is a kluge of a modern electronics wired into a speaker. I don't know who created/installed it. When was cleaning up the wiring (exposed 120Vac) I made a recording of the sound for backup, in case the mystery electronics dies.
While listening the recording I started to wonder if the sound was authentic. Since my only experience of subs comes from watching "run silent run deep" and "voyage to the bottom of the sea" as a kid, I decided to check out the sonar manual.
Do I have this correct ...
* Active sonar, the ping, is super-sonic, above the frequency range of human hearing (my words)
From the manual ==> Enemy echo-ranging (pinging) produces dull thuds or sometimes shrill peeps on JP.
So the men in the sub couldn't hear the enemy's sonar coming through the hull?
* The QB and JK/QC combined with their electronics translate the super-sonic sonar pings into the range of human hearing.
It looks like the frequency is mixed down to 800Hz.
The frequency search procedure (listening for the enemies pings) specifies looking from 14kHz to 32kHz.
I would guess the fleet sub's ping frequency would have be somewhere in that range. Maybe 17kHz?
The "beat frequency control" recommended setting is 800Hz, and the "peak frequency" filter's center frequency is 800hz.
I would think that means the "ping" sound in the headphones is 800Hz.
The lionfish "ping" generator's frequency is about 20% higher than 800Hz. I found a bunch of sonar sounds on the web, the closest is 12% higher than 800Hz. Maybe all the sounds are bogus, generated by Hollywood.
Anyone know where to find an actual recording of what the sonar operator heard in his headphones?
Thanx,
Drew
While listening the recording I started to wonder if the sound was authentic. Since my only experience of subs comes from watching "run silent run deep" and "voyage to the bottom of the sea" as a kid, I decided to check out the sonar manual.
Do I have this correct ...
* Active sonar, the ping, is super-sonic, above the frequency range of human hearing (my words)
From the manual ==> Enemy echo-ranging (pinging) produces dull thuds or sometimes shrill peeps on JP.
So the men in the sub couldn't hear the enemy's sonar coming through the hull?
* The QB and JK/QC combined with their electronics translate the super-sonic sonar pings into the range of human hearing.
It looks like the frequency is mixed down to 800Hz.
The frequency search procedure (listening for the enemies pings) specifies looking from 14kHz to 32kHz.
I would guess the fleet sub's ping frequency would have be somewhere in that range. Maybe 17kHz?
The "beat frequency control" recommended setting is 800Hz, and the "peak frequency" filter's center frequency is 800hz.
I would think that means the "ping" sound in the headphones is 800Hz.
The lionfish "ping" generator's frequency is about 20% higher than 800Hz. I found a bunch of sonar sounds on the web, the closest is 12% higher than 800Hz. Maybe all the sounds are bogus, generated by Hollywood.
Anyone know where to find an actual recording of what the sonar operator heard in his headphones?
Thanx,
Drew
12
Submarine Trivia / Did the fleet boats leave port on patrol with torpedoes in the tubes?
« on: December 30, 2012, 10:23:55 PM »
I have seen two places on the web that say the balao class carried 24 torpedoes.
The Lionfish looks like it held 10 torpedoes on the skids in the forward torpedo room. Add 6 more if the tubes were loaded and that is 16 torpedoes forward.
I can't tell for sure what the Lionfish had for storage in the aft torpedo room, but 4 torpedoes could fit. Add 4 more if tubes are loaded, and the sum is 8.
Add it all up and the total is 24.
Do I have the allocation correct?
Thanx,
Drew
Thanx,
Drew
The Lionfish looks like it held 10 torpedoes on the skids in the forward torpedo room. Add 6 more if the tubes were loaded and that is 16 torpedoes forward.
I can't tell for sure what the Lionfish had for storage in the aft torpedo room, but 4 torpedoes could fit. Add 4 more if tubes are loaded, and the sum is 8.
Add it all up and the total is 24.
Do I have the allocation correct?
Thanx,
Drew
Thanx,
Drew
13
Museum Submarine Discussion / Howto remove locking in TBT?
« on: December 01, 2012, 06:16:18 PM »
One side of the Lionfish's Target Bearing Transmitter binoculars has had water in it for a long time. Decided it is time to fix it.
I have hit a snag in the disassembly required to get to one of the lenses that is so coated with crud you can't see through it.
There is a lock ring that needs to be removed to get at the optics. It is has about a a 3 3/4 inch O.D., and four slots 90 degrees apart for a lock ring wrench. I placed a screwdriver in one of the slots, and banged at it hoping to get the lock ring to turn, but no luck. If I bang too hard I will mangle the slots, which I don't want to do. I have also tried penetrating oil, but so far that hasn't helped. The threads are not rusty, so I don't think the ring is stuck because of corrosion.
Any idea where to get a wrench that might fit it? Or perhaps other ideas on how to get the ring to spin?
It is hard to see in the picture, but..
You can see what looks like a vertical pipe with a flange that has 6 holes. There are threads in the I.D. of that pipe. Follow the threads down into the pipe, the first object is the lock ring, it is about 3/8" tall. At about 45 degrees clockwise from due north is one of the notches for the wrench.
There is also a black lock ring that holds the lens in, that is isn't the lock ring or the lens that I am trying to get at. The lens that has the problem is at the eyeball end of the binoculars. The insides of the binoculars have to be removed to get at the inside side of that lens.
Thanx,
Drew
I have hit a snag in the disassembly required to get to one of the lenses that is so coated with crud you can't see through it.
There is a lock ring that needs to be removed to get at the optics. It is has about a a 3 3/4 inch O.D., and four slots 90 degrees apart for a lock ring wrench. I placed a screwdriver in one of the slots, and banged at it hoping to get the lock ring to turn, but no luck. If I bang too hard I will mangle the slots, which I don't want to do. I have also tried penetrating oil, but so far that hasn't helped. The threads are not rusty, so I don't think the ring is stuck because of corrosion.
Any idea where to get a wrench that might fit it? Or perhaps other ideas on how to get the ring to spin?
It is hard to see in the picture, but..
You can see what looks like a vertical pipe with a flange that has 6 holes. There are threads in the I.D. of that pipe. Follow the threads down into the pipe, the first object is the lock ring, it is about 3/8" tall. At about 45 degrees clockwise from due north is one of the notches for the wrench.
There is also a black lock ring that holds the lens in, that is isn't the lock ring or the lens that I am trying to get at. The lens that has the problem is at the eyeball end of the binoculars. The insides of the binoculars have to be removed to get at the inside side of that lens.
Thanx,
Drew
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