SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
General Boards => Museum Submarine Discussion => Topic started by: Lance Dean on March 01, 2008, 05:07:39 PM
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I'd like to add a small section somewhere on this site about the uniqueness of each submarine museum.
Help me out and list what you know here!
For starters, I believe the USS Drum is the oldest of the submarine museums listed here, and she has a Balao class conning tower.
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You are almost right lance. The Drum is the oldest U.S. Submarine left and it was the first Gato class commissioned and the first to sink 4 ships or more on its first patrol and I believe the first submarine to be opened as a museum, feel free to correct me on that one if I am wrong. Also the first ship it sank was the largest up to that time.
Tom
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The uniqueness about the Batfish: For starters, she is on dry land. lol. Has the U.S.S. Shark memorial there, the 52 subs memorial, a SubVet meeting place attached, and tons of artifacts. Not to mention that the Batfish is the only submarine to have sank three enemy submarines, and in under 72 hours. I found (while looking through the artifacts) the page from the 3rd Japanese submarine's logbook, it was really cool.
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Travis, could you when convienent, take a better picture of the Shark SS-174 plaque and send it to me. The bigger the better? I can take good sized files at my yahoo address. The one I found online isnt that good. I hadn't seen it anywhere and will add it to the sub memorial Map along with some info I do have on the Shark. Also, if anyone there might know about the plaque and when it was put up, please pass that along also. I am glad that it is up. We had it listed as having nothing up for the Shark yet. You can email me at sub_ssn589@yahoo.com Thanks for mentioning that it was there.
Bill
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Bill - I can get you a high quality photo next Saturday. It will look better then. We just prepped the bases to be repainted and will repaint next Saturday. Send me an email to ussbatfish@yahoo.com and put SHARK MEMORIAL in the subject line and I'll have you a digital photo next Saturday evening.
Mark
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Mark, that will be great. Thanks for doing this and for all that you guys do. Any pictures you have of work on the Batfish, pass them along and we'll get them up on our SOS web page. I sent you the email.
Thanks,
Bill
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Thanks Mark. Viejo, I would have done it for you but I live in Colorado so im glad that Mark Allen can help out. Here is a picture I took of it, but it is not that good. What it is, is a map of the area with a marker for where they were lost, with all the names of the crewman.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s31/shoot-kill-win/DCAM0074.jpg)
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Travis, thanks. Mark is going to take some pictures after finishing up with doing some painting and so forth. Main thing is we have it up so people know it is there. I also put up on the LIB Page a link to the Batfish Web Page. Glad we are getting all these places listed for people to find. We have had almost 26,000 people look at our web page, so the links do get looked at.
Thanks to all of you guys for the help and the work you do.
Bill
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That is great! Last summer when I would give tours at the Batfish, people were just awed by the facts I told them about the amount of tonnage we sunk, and how the men lived. They kept saying "Are you serious?" It was great being able to inform so many people.
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Yes yes yes! This is what I want to happen with ALL the sub museums. If we can just get 'em here...
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The Torsk:
Most dives ever made and surfacing also ::)
Sunk the last Japanese vessel during WWII. Used a "cutie" to do the job.
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The Torsk:
Most dives ever made and surfacing also ::)
Sunk the last Japanese vessel during WWII. Used a "cutie" to do the job.
Wow, 11884 career dives, that's a lot!
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The Razorback is the latest submarine to be added to the museum subs inventory.
She has the distinction of having the most years in service among all the museum subs around the world.
Only one sub (still in commission) has longer service. Can anyone name that sub?
73
Jim
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The Razorback is the latest submarine to be added to the museum subs inventory.
She has the distinction of having the most years in service among all the museum subs around the world.
Only one sub (still in commission) has longer service. Can anyone name that sub?
73
Jim
Jim, how many years did the Razorback have in service in the USA and how many in the Turkish navy?
And on your trivia question, I have heard but cannot recall which sub it is.
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OK, USS COD:
the least modified sub on display (is RAZORBACK going to cut open her pressure hull? If so, we can get back to saying the last fully intact fleet sub on display... but with RAZORBACK using her hatches, we can't).
COD is the Martha Stewart sub (any challengers?) I got bed spreads, china, etc. to prove it! ::)
COD performed the only international sub-to-sub rescue when she rescued the crew of the dutch sub O-19.
Auxillary engine running, mains to follow soon, TDC up and running, scope hydraulics working, etc.
Home of the strangest bunch of volunteers (yours truly included).
Paul
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Regarding DRUM's conning tower... the fairwater (superstructure surrounding the CT pressure vessel) is typical GATO Connestoga wagon (three frames supporting shears)... maybe the pressure vessel is BALAO, but what surrounds it is standard GATO. I remember hearing something about replacing her CT, but I can't remember what was said (hey, I'm 50 and losing it!!!).
It's also the "shoe submarine" (story to be told at a later date). Just couldn't help but play games with former director Frank Dengler!
Paul
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Regarding DRUM's conning tower... the fairwater (superstructure surrounding the CT pressure vessel) is typical GATO Connestoga wagon (three frames supporting shears)... maybe the pressure vessel is BALAO, but what surrounds it is standard GATO. I remember hearing something about replacing her CT, but I can't remember what was said (hey, I'm 50 and losing it!!!).
It's also the "shoe submarine" (story to be told at a later date). Just couldn't help but play games with former director Frank Dengler!
Paul
I just recall something leaking so badly they couldn't dive (or dive deep) and even after welding on it they couldn't stop the leaking. So the tower was replaced.
This is something I didn't know. Apparently the old conning tower off of the USS Drum is at Great Lakes Naval and Memorial Museum near the USS Silversides??
http://www.murdoconline.net/archives/004823.html Scroll down the page and you'll see what I'm talking about.
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The Razorback is the latest submarine to be added to the museum subs inventory.
She has the distinction of having the most years in service among all the museum subs around the world.
Only one sub (still in commission) has longer service. Can anyone name that sub?
Based on the transfer of "the cribbage board", I would have to say that the USS Los Angeles has the longest service of the boats still in commission. http://www.csp.navy.mil/news/rel070511.html (http://www.csp.navy.mil/news/rel070511.html)
"OUR" submarine here in Portland, OR; is the U.S.S. Blueback (SS 581). One of the things that make her unique is that she was the last diesel boat to be put in commission. Of her class the U.S.S. Barbel (SS 580) and U.S.S. Bonefish (SS 582) were both put in commission before her. She is also one of the first class of submarine to use teardrop or "albacore" hull. Blueback served in commission for 31 years!
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The door frame at the aft end of the coning tower was cracked and it flooded the tower. Pearl harbor tryed to repair but the tower buckled on test dive so they had to go to Mare Island to get the new one. The deck support frames maybe Gato but the periscope shears and support is Balao.
Tom Bowser
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Regarding the Drum "conning tower" at the Silversides: That is a replica built by the folks at the Alabama battleship memorial, not the original. The Silversides folks acquired it around 1997-98.
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So where is the original one? Did they just scrap it?
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Most likely as it was remove in 1943 and they had no reason to save it. Also at the time they were changing out most of the conning towers and getting rid of the door in the aft end.
Tom Bowser
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Mine should be obvious. In addition to Travis' post. I have to add, where else are you going to find a submarine that was all but forcibly hauled up a river as far as she would go by a group or old sub vets and planted in the middle of a bean field. LOL
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You are correct there Rick.
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Without specific information from the shipyard about how bad the damage to DRUM's conning tower was and how it was fixed, I will say that when orders came down to remove the aft doors on the conning towers of the early Gato CTs (COD was built without one) the Navy simply had their aft ends cut off (think circumcision) and new solid caps welded in place. The caps were also dishd outwards instead of the pervious inward dishing, to provide badly needed interior room. The shears on DRUM, from my photos, are GATO. BALAO boats don't have the connestoga wagon "shoulders" because the heavy plating on the scope shears is strong enough to be free standing. Given the vast amount of work needed to cut out a CT barrel and put in a new one with all of the cables, scopes, piping, etc., I would have to suggest that what DRUM got was a new CT end cap and not a complete new barrel. This is common among historic ships: tribal knowledge becomes gospel because nobody goes back far enough to know better and rumor, speculation, and someone's interpretation becomes fact. Like the CT barrel at SILVERSIDES... someone saw it at BB ALABAMA and assumed it was from DRUM? DRUM came to AL from DC where it was a dockside trainer... any pieces parts from WWII would have been scapped loooong ago.
For the sake of DRUM history, I would like to really dig to the bottom of the CT issue Tom.
What specifically can you cite regarding a full replacement?
Thanks!
PF
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How about the machinery history records, or do you think they are wrong also. and you need to study the differences in shears more.
Tom
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I'd check the introductory paragraphs or pages of the war patrol report for the patrol immediately following the Mare Island overhaul. Every war patrol report usually starts off discussing what modifications were made to the boat.
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Already done that but I didn't think Paul would believe that either.
Tom
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Also I forgot to add statements from the crew members that were on the boat when the conning tower was cracked and rode the boat to the shipyard and after including the 4th skipper who made 11 patrols on the Drum and retired as a rear admiral. Of course all we have to do is drill a hole thru it and measure the thickness.
Tom
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Tom:
I wasn't calling you a liar -- rather I wanted to know what you had as evidence. (I am rarely considered a Doubting Thomas, but I have been fooled a few times)... The Gato-like shoulders threw me off... but after inspecting lots of photos of DRUM's upper shears, I have to admit, they sure don't look like the ones on SILVERSIDES or other early GATOs and do look a heck of a lot like the upper portions of a BALAO shear. But why didn't they (Mare Island) just do the whole thing as a new conning tower? It would seem easier, faster, and cheaper.
In the 32 years I've been involved with COD, I have heard lots of WASes (Wild Ass Stories) regarding COD and many other ships... and without knowing much about you youngsters (or newhands), I needed to hear about how you arrived at your conculsions... which in this case sounds pretty convincing I'll admit.
Now put down that deck wrench and let's go have a drink of Pink Lady and I'll tell you about the vegetable locker that was built into DRUM's sail for watch standers to feed from (no kidding!)...
Paul
:uglystupid2:
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The Becuna is mine because I served on her, and if the Redfin had gone to manitowoc, she would be in there also.
Becuna is a guppy conversion.
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Other than following me home to Pittsburgh, REQUIN is the sole survivor of the 10 fleet boats converted to SSR. Her stern room, cleared of all the torpedo tube equipment in 1947-48, was used as berthing when radar pickets went out of commission..
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Just so Paul cannot say the Batfish doen't have a spokes person. :police:
The Batfish sank 3 submarines in just over 76 hours. She has 14 kills to her name. She rescued 3 downed airmen from a B25 on her 7th patrol. She is the first submarine to hold a devine service in a war zone. Not only did she spot the Yamato, she was set up to make an attack run. the Yamato turned away at the last minute (in her zig zag pattern) and we were not able to catch up again. The SSN 681 was took on here name in 1972 and continueed service until 1999. SSN 681 was the first nuke sub to track a russian sub for 2 months straight undetected. USS Batfish 310 servied as part of teh Iwo Jima campaign..
Thats all I can think of right now.
Rick
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Who the heck would say BATFISH doesn't have spokespersons??? NOT ME! (But does she have a spokesmodel? Huh??? :laugh: )
No, I'm talking about those boats where there are no real nutjobs like us to lavish time on... :tickedoff:
Where the park managers dissuade any help...
>:(
PF
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We tried Christie Brinkly, but she turned us down.
Somthing about not likeing the mermaid costume or something like that.....
Rick
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Couple of things that are unique about the USS Marlin are that it is by far the smallest US Museum Boat and it probably is the only one with just one torpedo tube. I'll take some notes and report more unique things as I come across them in the next few months.
viejo
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Marlin and the Dolphin are going to be going at it because Dolphin is going to San Diego as a museum and she only has 1 tube also and she is also the deepest diving diesel the Navy had and her service life may be longer then almost all other diesel boats and nuke's. And yes my dumb butt turned down orders to her in '90 :-[ what a fool right, I wound up spending 3 1/2 years in pearl on the Hono which is now razorblades with the exception of part of her bow which is on the San Francisco (SSN 711)
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Wow, never knew the Dolphin only had one torpedo. But I'll bet it is bigger than the 8' one on the Marlin. It will be interesting and a learning experience to work on a diesel boat. I look forward to ilt.
Viejo
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I understand USS DOLPHIN's torpedo tube was removed many years ago. It was only for test and evaluation of various technologies, and not a weapons system.
DOLPHIN and ALBACORE have more in common as both were testbeds for the technologies that went into our SSNs.
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Give Paul a hand, they sure did pull her tube in who know's what year?
From Wiki:
Armament: .45 pistol, M14 rifle and shotgun for port defense
Externally mounted torpedo tubes were used for deep test firing of a torpedo
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What is unique about the USS Torsk (SS-423) is that she has the BEST volunteer crew!!! Cod may have a unique crew, but far from the best and most dedicated. Torsk may be the only museum with a working ice cream machine. So, add that to the most dives and surfaces and the last TWO enemy warships sank in WWII by the US Submarine Force. Marth Stewart, I mean Paul, may lose his standing as the best looking museum boat also!
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Ohhhh, nooo jou didn't say dat?
Time to say "halllo" to my leeetel friend!!! (Picking up a monsterous mahine gun and pointing it at mike)...
COD's ice cream machine works! It made a load of the hydraulic flavored cold stuff back in 1999 or thereabouts!
I second TORSK's claim to the most outstanding group of volunteers! We are forced to make the most out of a little band of merry men (and a woman or two)... sort of like comparig the Israeli army to the US Army. Similar goals, different sizes.
The submarine show is ongoing and thankfully competition makes it interesting and ever changing... BRING IT ON! :coolsmiley:
OH have we got stuff up our sleeves for 2009!
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Ok the fight ihas started.. I have to get in on this one. I have a crew that works a sub in the middle of OK of all places. The Marlin may be the most inland, but it is jus a toy compared to ours. We are not a test platform or a research vehicle. We are a full blown sub. No few post war mods and stil al true, blue desil boat. The work that has been accomplished in the past 2 years by my small dedicated group of volunteers has been outstanding. Consider 8 hours a week every other week we have 2 new torpedoes that are about to be loaded, major progress on a deck that needs to be replaces, a Crews quarters that has been shored up and ready for sleepovers (which are going on) and once again being recognized byt Muskogee and the State of OK as a ligit museum again. My crew is da best man. I will stand by that to the end of the day. :knuppel2:
We have our own little suprises coming next year and I cannot wait to reveil them.
Keep the faith all...... :laugh:
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Remember folks this isn't a fight or even a contest to see whom has the best crew or boat (TORSK!!) this is about ALL of us helping each other learn from mistakes made in the past so that the crews that are coming online are not doomed to repeat the mistakes that we all made in the past.
With the crew of the Batfish coming along nicely and Bill Lee and his crew hopefully being able to start working on the Marlin here shortly, they need our help and so does the DRUM who doesn't have anyone other the Tom and Leslie working their collective butts off trying to save her.
Most of us will never have the luxury that the crew of the Razorback has (getting a newly decommed fleet boat) and most if not all of her spare parts onboard and in great shape.. The next best thing would have been getting the Trout but that sadly did not happen and she gave her all before she was towed to Texas to be scrapped, a number of submarines are in a lot better shape because of her not being saved which is truly sad.
Ah who in the heck am I kidding it is a contest to see whom is the best and there are going to be a lot of folks trying to be the best in '09 so COD you need to step up your game if you and yours would like to keep that title (seein how Pamp and Bowfin have no reps here at all to defend themselves)