SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
Individual Submarine Boards => USS Batfish (SS-310) => Topic started by: Mark Sarsfield on February 26, 2013, 12:48:58 PM
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I finally took the first steps in hunting down the right people to talk to about scope repairs. Cavalla had theirs done a few years ago and it took Kollmorgen a little while to make the repairs. So, in the mean time, I believe that the Navy loaned two scopes to them until the originals returned. Pictures are posted on the Cavalla board of the scope installments.
Until we get hydraulics working, again, I recommended to Rick that we modify the metal stands that the scopes rest on, now, and install ones with a kind of Lazy Susan to allow the scopes to rotate. Of course, we can no longer use scope shims in the housings, if we go this route. So, the stands would have to be much beefier, since each scope weighs about 2,000 lbs.
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I am all for this. I am looking at a "Hard Hat" tour that will be very limited, but will offer guided access to certain areas of the submarine. The Con would be one of those areas. I want the pariscopes repaired. Who do whe talk to to get them done?
Rick
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You were copied on this email, but I will post it here, anyway....
Dear Mark,
We pulled both periscopes from the Cavalla and shipped them to the periscope repair shop in King’s Bay, Georgia at the end of 2008. I am attaching a picture of the repair of our attack scope in the periscope cleanroom.
The Trident Repair Facility took on the work as “no cost” in support of our not for profit submarine museum status. We dealt directly with the commanding officer of the TRF, Captain John Stewart who has since retired. The periscope repair shop personnel were fantastic, they sourced a technical specification manual and made many of the replacement parts themselves on lathes. The technicians were delighted and honored to do the job. The Cavalla attack scope was the one used during the attack and sinking of the Japanese carrier Shokoku in the battle of Philippine sea.
We were unsuccessful in getting any traction with Kollmorgen and scope manufacturers but the response from the Navy was outstanding.
We pulled the scopes ourselves with cranes and paid for the shipment on flatbed truck.
I am not sure where the other Navy periscope repair shops are, I would suggest you get in touch with King’s Bay first, since they have the most recent experience with these WW II scopes and found drawings. I am sorry, my King’s Bay contacts have since retired… I hope this helps in restoring your sight…
Best regards,
Grady Harrison
Chairman, CHF
The current CO is Capt. Lawrence D. Hill. I have a friend in the Navy (civil service) that I asked to hunt down the Captain's email address for me.
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Mark, do we need the full hydraulics system to work to raise/lower/turn them? Can we scab in a smaller system to isolate the scopes? If not, you get them to work and I'll figure a way to "lazy susan" them.
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There are bearings inside the housing that need to be inspected. We may need our Cavalla friends to explain how they did that and what they were looking for. The bearings in the housing allow the scope to rotate if it is held up with hydraulic fluid. With the current shims and support stands, the scopes cannot turn at all.
If I had a manual for the IMO hydraulic pumps in the pump room, I'd be more than happy to find someone to take one apart, service it, and reassemble it. I don't know if any of the other boats have successfully rehabilitated their hydraulic system. Theoretically, we should be able to isolate the scopes from the rest of the hydraulic system and just focus on the hydraulic plumbing in the pump room, control room, and the control tower. My guess is that all fittings would have to be loosened and the seals and maybe valves would have to be replaced or refurbished. I think all of the original fluid leaked into the pump room bilge (which was later removed by the Indian Nation kids). So, there's definitely leaks in the system, at present.
The electric motors that run the pumps should still be operational. It's just a matter of dedicating some power to running that system outside of the I.C. Switch Board in the control room.
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says Jean Luc Piccard "Make it so....." Let's see if the Navy will do for us what they did for Cavalla.
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I sent an email to the captain a few hours ago. We'll see if he bites.
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Outstanding! Our sub sank three subs. That's at least as good as a carrier. ;D
Edit: I changed my mind. Let's make all the hydraulics work (dreaming here). I want to be able to open and close all the tube doors and shutters. I saw a video of Tom cranking one of his outers open with the inner door open :o How did he do that? I would settle for manual open/close to start. ;D
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Anyone can sink a skimmer. ;) Sinking three subs back when torpedoes were mostly unguided or had unreliable guidance systems and in horrible sea conditions is definitely note-worthy. ;D
Anyway, I got a fairly quick response from Capt. Hill. It sounds promising once this budget mess is over...
Mark,
Thank you for continuing to tell the Submariners story and we need to find a way to repair those periscopes. Clearly with our current budget constraints there are limitations to what we can and cannot spend tax payer dollars on. My staff will research how we can support you and the museum and I will let you know.
V/R
LH
CAPTAIN L. D. HILL
COMMANDING OFFICER
Trident Refit Facility
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OK, You found me, the Periscope Guy. I have been associated with the former Kollmorgen for just about 50 years. I received an email from Mark Sarsfield today via Kollmorgen, Radford VA. It is a long story. Briefly, Kollmorgen Electro-Optical was sold to Danaher in 2001. They kept us for about 11 years and a year ago we were sold to L-3 Communications. We are now known as L3-KEO. As a condition of the previous sale we are not authorized to use the name "Kollmorgen". Ninty seven years of name recognition down the drain. The name Kollmorgen is being used by a Danaher Division and they have nothing to do with periscopes.
The reason I use the term "we" is that I am still affiliated with theL3-KEO operation as a part time employee. I retired from Kollmorgen in 2001. Most of my career has been providing field service to U.S. and foreign navies. In addition, I have assisted with the installation of over thirty surplus periscope displays around the world during the last 22 years.
I was involved with the CAVALLA Project. In August 2004, we were able to obtain two surplus overhauled periscopes for the Cavalla. One was a 1960's vintage Type 8B and a Type 2F. This vintage periscope is still available from the NAVSEA Ships Donation Office. I have contacts if you want to go this route. Several years after that swap out the Cavalla Group wanted their old periscopes refurbuished. Kollmorgen has never done this and is not set up to do it. The way I understand it is that a former Cavalla Skipper was a friend of the then Periscope Repair Officer at King's Bay, GA. The Kings Bay shop agreed to do the job. I assisted behind the scenes providing some documentation and tried to get a lens they needed from the Turkish Periscope Shop in Golcuk Turkey. I loaned my periscope clamps to the Cavalla in 2010 so that they could make the reverse swap.
The only chance you have for an overhaul would be the King's Bay Shop or the one a Bangor, Washington. The Bangor Shop rebuilt a couple of Kollmorgen Cape Canaveral Bunker Periscopes several years ago. I don't have any high level contacts at either place. The last remaining periscope shop is at Pearl Harbor.
Let me know how I can help. How bad are the periscopes? Your website shows that they are pretty intact.
Paul Lapinski
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Paul,
Thanks for replying to my email to "Kollmorgen". It definitely sounds like King's Bay is the way to go. Do you live near the Cavalla?
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Mark
I actually live in North Hatfield MA. L3-KEO (Kollmorgen) is located in Northampton MA. The new facility is about seven miles from my home.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
First I will apologize to Mark for temporarily hijacking his conversation.
I help out with the Lionfish at Battleship Cove in Fall River. The paid staff keeps the boat afloat and tries keep the structure sound enough that the visitors don't fall through the deck. Restoration of the equipment isn't something they have the time or resources to do.
I am jealous when I hear of the restoration going on at some of the other boats. For the Lionfish the work is cosmetic. Keeping her surfaces looking nice with some cleaning and a fresh coat of paint.
The boat's attack periscope (93KN36) has been leaking for some time. The view from the eyepiece is now translucent instead of transparent. And the controls (hi/lo power, eyepiece position, ...) no longer move. I removed the bottom flange and bottom plug assy bolts to drain the water. About 1/2 gallon came out. I keep a pan under the scope and it fills up after a while, so the scope is still leaking.
For the Lionfish, fixing the leak would look something like a guy with some RTV climbing up a ladder and applying a bead where the water might be coming in.
I would be very helpful to me if we could talk to see if you can think of things that I would be capable of doing to help this periscope.
If this isn't too forward, could we arrange to talk by phone at your convenience?
Of course you could just float down the Connecticut River, hook a left when you hit the Atlantic, bang another left when you pass Aquidneck Island (newport), when you pass under the Braga bridge in Fall riiver look to your right. The person waving to you from the bridge of SS-298 will be me.
Thanx Drew
(And thanx to Mark too)
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Hijack away Drew. You may be the person I have been looking for. We need a good contact person for the Lionfish. if Mark is silvertongued enough, and pleads a good case, we might get scope rebuilds for Batfish, Drum and the Lionfish. Anyone else need their scope rebuilt? Maybe we get a group rate on parts or the Navy can get some really good press or ?
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There is a manual online for the IMO pumps and yes we did discuss it during the school of the boat. Ya might want to go back and re-look at that whole string here and ASK questions, FYI the IMO's are run by DC power and you should be able to isolate just your periscope hydraulics from the rest of the system.. Both the PAMP and the COD have their hydraulics running
www.hnsa.org is a great website if you haven't been there for a while
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Hi Paul
Tom Bowser with the Drum-
Do you have a suggestion on how to preserve the periscope barrels on permanently raised scopes? Ours are starting to rust.
Thanks
Tom
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Thanks, Darrin. I was trying to find the hydraulics thread yesterday and there were a few small threads randomly scattered on the board, but I forgot that we had discussed it in the School of the Boat section.
Drew, welcome aboard the sub forum. We're finally glad to hear someone from the Battleship Cove museum. Paul is right in that we might be able to get TRF to do a group repair for multiple boats. I doubt that they would do all of these scopes gratis. So, we should find out the cost is to the Navy to do each one and come up with an offer, such as each museum paying 50% of the bill. TRF was forced to manufacture some parts for the Cavalla scopes and each of our scopes will have a unique set of problems, but they could still send us a ballpark figure.
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Mark,
you may also want to go back through the Fleet Submarine Manual on your Hydraulics systems, I belive that Lance had linked it into the thread in the beginning of the thread.. and then go back through your archives and pull out the qual drawings and photo copy them and reverify that nothing has changed in your system and start slowly and methodically working on your system. Corey would be a good candidate if he is still working with you due to his time working on UH-60's
Darrin
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Mark, I just had a long conversation with Penny (Director at Cavalla) you might want to give her a call. She can probably put you in direct contact with the guys who "done the deed" on the scopes (remove/replace - repeat). 409-770-3196 She has individuals that are over different "stuff" on both their boats.
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I've been chatting with Grady Harrison over the past few days. Penny and other Cavalla folks have been copied in. Right now Grady is trying to see if they still have a point of contact for the Navy Ship Donation Program. We might be able to get some 637 (Sturgeon attack boat) scopes donated to the Batfish while the originals are being repaired.
Paul Lapinksi (who posted earlier in this thread) was one of the key players in getting the scopes removed/replaced/repaired for Cavalla and said that he has helped to install 30 donated scopes over the past 20+ years. He also has a scope clamp that we could probably borrow. Still, having some of these guys present before and during our scope swapping would be a huge load off of our shoulders. No sense in reinventing the wheel. Also, Paul said that the two 1960's scopes that Cavalla borrowed should be available for us to borrow through NAVSEA. So, it's nice having multiple avenues.
We should probably get the loaner scopes sent to us, first, so that we can use their containers/crates to ship our scopes to King's Bay... assuming that they will fit.
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Do they have more scopes to loan? I was talking to Bob on the Croaker today and they have no scopes. Thay have a facsimile of a scope. he was unaware but I am trying to get him registered on here as well so he can participate/watch this subject. He was a wealth of info.
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I will find out, if Grady and Paul can get me their respective Navy contacts. You probably won't find anymore WWII scopes, but it sounds like the Navy keeps all of the scopes from decommissioned (and scrapped) nuke boats.
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and those scopes did time on previous nukes and even diesels.. we had one in 91 that was 40+ years old and working like new
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They have a 50's or 60's era scope at the OKC Science center. You mostly get a view of the building roof, but at least you can swivel it 360 deg. I think it's an attack scope, since it doesn't have any features for viewing up and down.
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Here is the reply from NAVSEA... :(
Mark
As material donations are done at no cost to the government, we
do not have the resources to research the availability or suitability of
particular items for display purposes. However, if you were able to
locate a suitable periscope for your purposes and it fell under our
purview, we would not be able to support your request as our program
does not allow for the loaning of material or the providing of loaner
material while repairs are made to previously donated material. Feel
free to also contact me at (202) 781-0682 if you wish to discuss further
or have additional questions.
r/gk
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You have to love the Gov't double talk about not being able to loan anything while the previously loaned materials are out being restored... Hmmmmm something about a what 10" hole in your superstructure with nothing there while the origionally "loaned" material is being restored... I seem to remember that when you remove a periscope that the opening needs to be covered and then sealed so that you don't get corrosion and debris in the same area...
Mark, IF you can call this person and explain that you are trying to replace the scopes with ones that work and that the Batfish maybe able to help in the cost of moving them from where they are being stored to where the Batfish is now, you may get somewhere...
Someone call Paul Farace on the COD and see how he got his "pink Periscope" fixed.... good long story and if I remember correctly only the top of it survives due to a car accident :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
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I'll let Rick fight this battle. He's the manager-guru.
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Is Rick up to speed on this? Sealing the hole while waiting for the scopes to come back is no big deal. If we can get this done without loaners but we DO get working scopes I say "go".......
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Ahh folks I managed to call and upset the COD director this am :-[ I didn't realize that he is on assignment overseas in Thailand/Bangkok right now... SO to finish the "pink" periscope issue (it was posted on the COD link a few years ago BTW) a mature woman lost control of her car one night in front of the USS COD's display Periscope which as Paul loves to point out some of the Skipper's believed if the 'scope head was painted pink it made it harder for the enemy to see it :2funny: SO anyways there was a loud bang as the car crashed into his beautiful periscope and if I recall bent it in half with the bottom part being nearly destroyed which was a true shame... SO what did our beloved Martha Stewart of the submarine community do??? he had the pink portion of the top which has the lenses in it chopped off and it is now on display onboard the boat where no one can drive a car into it again ;)
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Don't give up Mark. I say "no scopes" for awhile if we can get them repaired. No one tours the con now anyway, so they won't be missed in the short term to get gain in the long term. Once they are repaired we could begin more "hard hat tours". They generate more revenue and we can fix more stuff. You've run the ball this far. Press it in.
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Plating it off isn't a bad idea, actually. With the scopes out of the way, we could probably take advantage of the extra maneuvering room and get some painting done up there. Even if we duct-taped heavy-duty garbage bags or modified tarps over the holes, it's better than nothing.
There's still the matter of King's Bay giving us the green light, once this budget mess is over for 2013. Then we have to get scope crates, get a scope removal clamp, get volunteers to show up on removal day, rent a crane, line up a trucking company, etc.
Darrin, do you still drive truck?
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I would laser cut some plates to fit and then (I know, I know) silicone them shut. If you use 3M non-bonding sealant, it peels right off when you pull the plates. The crane is going to be the biggest issue. Not the weight, but the reach. We are unique in that we are land locked AND in a bowl. Cavalla, at least was half buried. We have 40+ feet before we get started. luckily, I know an excellent rigger that has the gear here in Tulsa and might be coerced into doing it for a little PR and a nice newspaper story. Surely King's bay has some crates to loan us for the trip. The Cavalla guys might come up to help if we ask nicely. They've been there-done that and would speed up the process. Mr Lipinski may let us use his clamp. trucking is easy too. I know this guy........ :)
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The only truck i drive now is a '07 Dodge Ram quad cab 4X4, sounds like a good road trip with a car trailer though... Who's payin the bill because it isn't me :coolsmiley:
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Darrin,
If you were still hauling cross country, we would have made it worth your while. Sounds like we could probably find someone locally with a flatbed that is willing to take a road trip.
Jim,
The distance from the keel to the top of the scopes is about 65 feet. Granted, we have a few feet in the dirt, but, as you said, it's still quite a reach. Then, you need to be able to clear the scopes from the housings, which is probably another 15+ feet. So, we need a crane with at least 100' reach (taking the angle of the boom into account).
It would be nice if the Navy has available crates, but if a bunch of boats are knocking at TRF's door wanting scope repairs, we need to make it as palatable as possible for the Navy to want to help us. EDIT: Money has been spent. So, we could afford to crate them ourselves.
Edit: Sorry, Mark. talked to Rick. That fund is gone.
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Mark,
I believe that you may have me confused with another shipmate of mine from the Honolulu that does cross country trucking, the only truck driving I did was for the Army and it was 10+ years ago while I was in the 101st, Korea and then in combat with 3d ID.. If you want I maybe able to track them down and see if they would like to donate their time and truck for the move of the periscopes...
Funny thing, when we would get different periscopes in Pearl they used a 2 1/2 ton truck with blocking in the bed to move them from storage to where the boat was.. almost got in trouble once for "borrowing" one of those 2 1/2 ton trucks one night for a different purpose :coolsmiley:
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We have HOW much? :o :o :o :o A lot can be done with that. I have cross country trucking contacts, so no problem there. The issue is the scope crates. That is priority one. Navy coordination on those will take the longest I think to seal. Either their crates or I make some blocked crates on site. If we can get the Cavalla crew and Mr. Lipinski lined up, that's second for the clamp and removal. 100' boom, covered. When do you start? (I have ZERO sub-stuff experience.) I can work from the pressure hull to full armament outside. Inside? I defer to guys who know the boats. I can help with logistical support and grunt labor and that's about it.
How long are the scopes crated (length)?
If Rick would let loose of some of that cash, I could have us an LCVP in a week. ;D
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Here's a link to the scope manual (NAVPERS 16165)... http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/pscope/index.htm (http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/pscope/index.htm). According to the manual (page 43), the scope is under 42' long. Longer than I originally thought. So, we'll need a crane that goes 150' to be safe.
Chapter 2 actually talks about removing and installing a scope. I will have to read it over, but any help from the Cavalla folks would be a big plus.
Until the 2013 federal budget mess goes away, I don't see TRF being in a position to help us and I'd rather not have the scopes laying around in a crate for a year waiting for the green light. At least not until Rick gets his new storage room built... and assuming that it will be long enough to contain a 43' crate.
Ideally, you want the crates to be ready when the scopes are removed. Maybe we can at least get crate prints from TRF.
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I have crate storage covered as well. No charge. Logistics. Getting the scopes out and crated is a seperate target, in my mind. We have 1) out, 2) rebuild, 3) back-in. let's work the 1. If King's Bay agrees to repair them, we just need a ball park time frame.
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Looks like the scopes will have to be held up by the crane while all of the gizmos on the bottom (viewing) end are removed. A lot of items have to be place-marked during removal, too. I'll need some time to do the proper homework before we plunge into removing the scopes. Meanwhile, before we commit to building crates, let's see what the Navy can do for us in that area.
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Roger. I am here for support. Let me know when you're ready to start.
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Sorry about being away for a while. i am trying to put this project in perspective. I have a few areas that i would like to cover. I hope anyone that is in on this project has read the appropriate sections of the Submarine Periscope Manual: NavPers 16165. It's online location was posted previously. Looking at the Online photos of the BATFISH Conning Tower I have determined that the the periscopes installed are a Type IV (#1 FWD) and a Type II (#2 AFT, Skinny Neck Attack) Both periscope are covered in the NavPers Manual. They are complex assemblies and during their manufacture skilled craftsmen put each one together in their own way. I will let you folks deal with the periscope shop as to their capabilities. Unfortunately, I was not involved with the CAVALLA rework so I don't know how far into periscopes the shop went and I don't know how the finished product came out.
As far as removing the periscopes from the submarine, the difficulty is how free are they now? I assume they have not been up and down for a while. Do they rotate? If not, there may be issues with the Hull Seal and the upper bushings/bearings. They were used to regular greasing and salt water lubrication. I assisted with removing the two periscopes from the USS RASHER Conning Tower and it took a lot of penetrating oil and the largest hydraulic jacks that we could find just to make them move. We finally were able to lift them out. BTW the RASHER Conning Tower was installed in the Columbia River Maritime Museum in Astoria OR. The top of the conning tower and one of the periscopes ended up in Manitowoc, WI and the other periscope is in a museum in Marquette MI.
As far as shipping, they do not have to be crated as long as they are chocked in place and the head and eyepiece box are proteced. I have done that several times. An air ride flatbed trailer is recommended.
If you provide the Registry Numbers of the periscopes I may be able to provide some background information. The number would be four digits long and be on the nameplate. If no nameplates, the number should be stamped into the eyepiece box casting.
One last thing for this entry. I am working with the Naval History and Heritage Command and the Reuben H. Fleet Science Center in San Diego. The Science Center is looking for a home for their Type IV (shipped 5/25/45) that is scheduled to be removed in the near future. I have not viewed that periscope for about ten years and it was cloudy then. Is there anyone from BATFISH that will be in San Diego to evaluate it for possible use?
Paul Lapinski
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Mark, Rick...stations. Mark, can you address Mr. Lipinski's questions? Rick, if we can, would we want the type IV for an interactive "conning" display? Or try and have that one rebuilt and swap out for our IV? If we have a crane on site, we pull two and replace one and we're halfway home.
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Jim,
I would recommend emailing or texting Rick with any questions. He seldom visits here, anymore.
Paul,
The scopes have been frozen in position since the 1970's. The scopes are raised, but sitting on makeshift supports and are also supposedly shimmed in their housings, somehow. The next time that I get to the boat, I will take photos of the set-up and write down the info that you requested.
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Mark,
When the crew broke the scopes loose on the Torsk a number of years ago it took a LOOOONNNGGG time to get all of the shims that held it in place out and have the lower end units put back on..
With the use of come a longs and a very large porta power over time with greasing the crew was able to break the scopes loose once more.. HOWEVER the Torsk does NOT have hydraulic power to raise or lower them at this time (to my knowledge).
This was documented on the Torsk bbs @ www.usstorsk.org and most if not all of the work took place during the work weekends, to find the link on the bbs look under the "activities" section and you will see all of the work weekends and other pictures from previous strip ships and what nots
Darrin
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Darrin,
Where do they usually shim it in the housing? Top and bottom?
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Hi All
I wonder if what they mean concerning "shims" is the chevron packing that is part of the hull seal. There is nowhere else that the periscope can be "shimmed". This is shown clearly in Figure 2-47 on page 36 of the periscope manual. This section of the manual also covers removing and installing a periscope.
The hull packing can remain in place while removing the periscope. After the periscope is removed, the hull seal components can be delt with.
The hull seal components will have to be removed before the periscope is installed. The components are installed one at a time from inside the conning tower while the periscope is supported by a safety clamp above. The Hoisting Yoke will not be in place at this time. After the packing is in place the Hoisting Yoke is raised into position. A good description of the Hoisting Yoke is given starting on Page 470 of the Periscope Manual.
To separate the periscope from the hoisting yoke, you have to remove the setscrews, item 4 on Figure 7-26, Page 472, and unscrew the Cover Ring, Item 16. When you raise the periscope out of the Hoisting Yoke, there will be a set of Split Rings, Item 17, in a grove in the periscope. These split rings are removed and this will allow you to remove the Cover Ring and the periscope can be raised out of the submarine.
When you install the periscope you must be sure the Cover Ring is on the periscope and the Split Rings are in place. There is no need to take the Housting Yoke apart unless it must be cleaned and lubricated.
If the periscopes on the BATFISH are in the full raised position it could be a problem gaining access to the top or the Hoisting Yoke to remove the Cover Ring Lockscrews and the Cover Ring.
Darrin, Do you happen to know where in the TORSK bbs the periscope related entries are? I visited the the TORSK years ago to deliver an E&E Adapter for their Type 8B Periscope. As you may know, their periscopes were upgraded over the years but the Hull Packings and the Removal/Installation would be similar to the BATFISH.
Paul
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Mark, your ad-hoc point man. Where are we really on this?
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Paul,
What I called "shims" were listed as wedges in 2002's work weekend activities, they turned out to be rubber wedges that were used by the Navy to hold the scopes up in case of hydraulic loss (which a crewmember did release the hydraulic lock on them in '04) and they were in the superstructure in various different area and no I wan't apart of the team working on the scopes so I have no idea as to where they were located at inside of the superstructure of the sail.
The crew also worked on the scopes in '04,05,06 and '08
Here is the link to the '02 work weekend and you can click on the "activities" link on the home page to see the rest of the work that the crew did
http://www.usstorsk.org/volunteers/tww09/tww9_01.htm
Darrin
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Thanks, guys.
Jim,
I contacted King's bay (the Captain) regarding someone in his command contacting us about scope crates or prints for scope crates. As Darrin mentioned, we could always build ad-hoc crates. The more that I look into this project, the more complicated that it gets. I have not had enough time to really put my heart and soul into researching all of the important and necessary details to pull this off without having damage to property or people. It would REALLY be helpful to have people available (in person) that have done this before, too.
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I'm sure, once you are ready to move forward, we can convince some Cavalla crews to come up and help. If it is scheduled enough in advance we might get Mr Lipinski to help supervise. ;D
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Mark,
IF you can't find or get the periscope cases you can reverse engineer them while they are onboard the Batfish ;)
You already know the length of the 'scopes and you can easily get the inner dimensions of what is inside of the people tank and IF Paul sends you his clamps you will have another dimension already done for you and the remaining and biggest pains in the arse to get are the uppper part of the 'scope housings.
And IF I remember correctly the upper part of the 'scopes really don't need to be braced too much unless they are going to be laying flat for a long period of time or being shipped so you shouldn't have to have to have your guys climb the shears just to get the diameter of the 'scopes. Granted I haven't seen a 'scope being removed and replaced since '93ish and that was to re-install the origional one on Honolulu after replacing the Type 2 attack scope
Darrin
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Hello All,
I have been working with the Reuben H Fleet Science Center located in San Diego CA. They have a 1945 vintage Type IV Periscope that will be removed in the near future during a facility upgrade. They do not want the periscope any longer and we are looking for a new home. If we can not find one the periscope will be shipped back to the Naval Supply Center, Cheatham Annex, Williamsburg VA for storage. These periscopes are becoming quite rare and the Naval History and Heritage Command does not want to see it scrapped. I last viewed the periscope ten years ago and it was in good condition. Recent conversations and pictures provided by the Exhibits Director indicate that they have taken good care of it. Bear in mind that this periscope is showing wear and is missing external eyepiece box components. It has been open to the public for quite a few years.
If anyone is interested I would suggest a visit to the Science Center to evaluate the condition. The receiving organization would be required to contact the Naval History and Heritage Command to request transfer of custody. Then they would be required to pay transportation costs from San Diego. A ball park figure for trucking is $2.15 per mile. I recommend displaying the periscope in an area that is accessible to the public. It could go onto a Fleet submarine but the Conning Tower has limited access.
If anyone has any questions and/or concerns please contact me via this forum and I will try to help you out. I have recent photos and contact information.
Paul
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Paul,
Thanks for the heads up. Is the Type IV scope the observation scope or the attack scope?
Mark
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We would love to have that scope. Please send Mark and me any information. I am intent on getting it.....:)
Rick
ussbatfish@sbcglobal.net
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Could we continue this conversation via email. I am not an experienced forum user.
Thanks,
Paul
PJL2@comcast.net
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Here's how the OK Science Museum has their scope set up. The height is fixed, but it can rotate 360 deg. Most of the view through the scope is of the building roof. Apparently, it's a Type 24KA36/HA ...
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/-BhspF5RWvIA/Tn6tT-9iOHI/AAAAAAABNQU/EIwmQypGFv4/IMG_1630.JPG) (http://lh4.ggpht.com/-NarOSx_8gs4/Tn6taf-ETZI/AAAAAAABNQc/eOSuF2tr9ss/IMG_1632.JPG)
I like the steps idea, too, for the kids. It's a little hard on adults, but the kids get more out of it.
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Mark,
Do you have a point of contact at the OK Science Center. The display is very interesting, especially the nameplate. The nameplate looks very new and there seems to be a "1" missing at the front of the "DESIGN DESIG. number. The registry number indicates that it is a Type 2E which would make it a 124KA36/HA. If that is the case, it was originally delivered to the NAVY on September 28, 1961.
Thanks,
Paul
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I looked more closely at the picture of the name plate and I think that there is a "1" in front of the 24... A type 2E sounds about right for the vintage.
I think I remember seeing another I.D. plate on the scope that said it was a "2E". Were these scopes taller than WWII scopes? It shows a viewing height of 74 ft.
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The Type 2E was one of the shorter periscopes produced. 37 foot optical length as noted on the Design Designation. 124KA"36"HA on the nametag. The 74 denotes the maximum elevation viewing angle. The Type II Attack on the BATFISH is about 40 feet long.
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What boats were the 2E's installed on? Training vessels?
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The Type 2E was used on the 594 Class Fast Attack Submarine. A tragic story is that the Class was going to be known as the "SSN-593 THRESHER Class". After the loss of the THRESHER sixty years ago, on April 10 1963 during sea trials, submarine production was stopped and a new SUBSAFE requirement was put into place. At that time the Class designation was changed to the SSN-594 PERMIT Class. The THRESHER would have had a Type 2E installed when she went down.
Trainer Periscopes were a separate design completely different but made to look like a tactical periscope. I installed and maintained about twelve of that design during the 1980's and 90's
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For anyone that's curious, this is how we have our scopes propped up. I'm assuming that these posts are holding up the scopes in conjunction with shims, but we may not have any shims at all. I don't know what the wall thickness is on the posts.
(http://a2.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/74/f30a357c948674ca8930d146334a546e/l.jpg)
EDIT: Jim was at the boat today and said that both scope ID plates are M.I.A. Probably stolen by vandals. :knuppel2:
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Here are Batfish's data plates.........None. It is mighty dark up in there too.
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The next time anyone is in the vicinity of the BATFISH periscopes please look carefully around the bottom of the Eyepiece Box. There should be a four digit Registry Number manually stamped into the casting. You will have to look carefully because it will/may be painted over. It is usually located below the viewing window. If you can find the information I may be able to provide type and date of delivery information even though the nameplates are missing .
Paul