SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
Individual Submarine Boards => USS Batfish (SS-310) => Topic started by: Travis McLain on April 08, 2008, 07:17:01 PM
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\. I have not decided where to place the deck gun at this time. This is a big job. We have to keep in mind that the one we have was configured as a shore battery. We will need to remove all of the decking that is built up around us.
Rick, are you talking about the deck gun to the left as you are coming out of the museum to go to the boat? I know it is a 5" gun, however it is not the one they had on subs, they had a specific wet mount for the subs. And I believe that the other guns are 3" guns.
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Travis, that is the one that I am talking about. As I saide, we will need to strip it done considerablly. From my conversations with the vets. the guns are the same. the difference is in the mounting as you said. This was a shore battery that is why you have the deck built up around it. This will need to be removed. this is aldo the same 5' cannon that wa sused on the destroyers turrents. The only difference there was to remove the hand rail and add a tin housing over the top.
We are truly like the vet of the time. Taking what we have and making it work for what we need.
Rick
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You really don't have a choice with something unique like this. Not a lot of 5" deck guns laying about, anymore. A lot of the parts will have to be fabricated.
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That is a given. Unless we know of someone that has one sitting aroung.. :)
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Travis, that is the one that I am talking about. As I saide, we will need to strip it done considerablly. From my conversations with the vets. the guns are the same. the difference is in the mounting as you said. This was a shore battery that is why you have the deck built up around it. This will need to be removed. this is aldo the same 5' cannon that wa sused on the destroyers turrents. The only difference there was to remove the hand rail and add a tin housing over the top.
We are truly like the vet of the time. Taking what we have and making it work for what we need.
Rick
Ok, cool. But it will definately take alot of fabrication to make it like the wet mount. I just was not sure exactly what you had in mind Rick.
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Rick, are you talking about the deck gun to the left as you are coming out of the museum to go to the boat? I know it is a 5" gun, however it is not the one they had on subs, they had a specific wet mount for the subs. And I believe that the other guns are 3" guns.
Rick - I guess I'm confused on which gun you are talking about. Are you referring to the HUGE gun right off the northwest corner of the museum? Or are you referring to one of the other guns (see photos below)? The gun in the B&W example photo seems to mimic the gun in the first photo. I'd vote for it first, then the gun in the second photo. Please clarify for me which gun you are talking about as there are two guns to the left coming out of the museum.
Mark A.
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Mark A
I am talking about the very large gun on the imediate SW corner of the building. Again, I know we are talking about a lot of work. but I can show you what I think they did to convert this to a submarine deck gun.
Rick
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Speaking of deck gun, maybe Pearl Harbor would part company with the USS Parche's?
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08384.htm (bottom photos)
Obviously, we could take better care of it than they are. For something so prominently displayed, it's not looking much better than the current condition of our guns (not meant to be a bash on the museum).
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Speaking of deck gun, maybe Pearl Harbor would part company with the USS Parche's?
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08384.htm (bottom photos)
Obviously, we could take better care of it than they are. For something so prominently displayed, it's not looking much better than the current condition of our guns (not meant to be a bash on the museum).
THat would be a pretty cool addition to the museum, but I bet it would be alot of red tape and money. However we somehow have managed to do pretty good with the Oklahoma mast, from last I heard.
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Speaking of the 5" deck gun, it's important to note that surface ships generally used the 5"/38 gun, whereas the subs used the 5"/25 gun. The biggest difference being that the surface ship gun is 65 inches longer. If the 5" gun that we have at the museum is on a surface ship platform, then more than likely it's a 5"/38. I don't think that we should substitute one for the other on the boat.
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If the 5" gun that we have at the museum is on a surface ship platform, then more than likely it's a 5"/38. I don't think that we should substitute one for the other on the boat.
I couldn't agree more. I have my reservations on putting that 5" gun on the boat, mainly because it wasn't on a submarine...and wasn't a true deck gun.
We have one, possibly two, candidates already at the park (see my previous post showing the two guns). One for sure was a deck gun...it's a 3" gun, but at least it was a deck gun. It will take a whole lot LESS work to move the 3"...and it will be easier to restore.
I think Rick and I are going to look at the guns on Saturday...I'll discuss the options with him...but ultimately it's his decision.
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Yeah, a 3" inch deck gun would be more accurate than putting a huge 5" deck gun on her, even though she never had a 3" gun. It never hurts to contact the Navy to see what is in their museum/storage inventory, either. Even a 4" deck gun would be a good mount.
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Good discussion, I did not know there was a difference in how long the barrel was. It is difficult to tell without the sid by sid comparison. The only difference that I could see was in the actual mounting structure. I can see on our guns were that would be easily (with a big lift) to remove it from that mounting. It never hurts to check with the Navy. I have not found anything as of yet but will keep looking.
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The 5"/38 gun has a 190" barrel and the 5"/25 has a 125" barrel (not sure if the measurement includes the whole breech or not). A quick check with the measuring tape will determine which one the park has.
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10-4 on that. You have me courious now......
It makes me wonder what kind of trad off this made on the wepons range and accuracy. I kno that sortening a barrel on a personal weapon will decrease both...
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Reading some reports on gunnery practice, the results weren't too favorable, but it's a combination of the weapon, the moving platform, and the untrained crewmen. Some boats decided to bring gunners on board and even installed fire control direction equipment - radar range finding.
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I guess that all falls into knowing your equipment/weapons...
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Yeah. Firing at the right moment when the roll and pitch of the boat are at the instance when it's level is a large part of it. Otherwise, you're firing too low, too high, too left, too right, or some combination thereof. Speed played a big part,too. Running at 18 knots in choppy water would make for a bad gunnery day.
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never thought of that. When I start looking at all of these factors, it really makes you appreciate the new firing systems that we have now days....
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Yeah. Those modern 5" guns that can shoot 20 miles over the horizon are incredible.
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On the 5" inch gun, here is a pic of the one at the corner of the museum, and a comparison to the actual wet mount sub 5".
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Definitely two different weapons. Maybe we can find another museum or organization to trade with.
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Definitely two different weapons. Maybe we can find another museum or organization to trade with.
I agree. I think that this gun would look totally out of place on the deck of the sub.
I vote again for either (1) put on one of the 3" guns currently at the park...or (2) find an actual 4" or 5" DECK GUN.
Mark A.
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I agree with Mark Allen, I think for the time being after the deck is done we should put one of the 3" on and then if we get a 4" or 5" replace the 3".
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Guys, the deck gun conversation now has its own thread. :) Confusion was running amok.
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That is good Lance, thanks. It seems us Batfish guys get talking on so many different subjects on a specified topic thred. lol.
Now our only problem, if we want to go with the 4", is trying to find one. Now disagreeing with my previous post, I think we should try to stick with historical accuracy and see if we can get a 4" to put on the deck.
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Now our only problem, if we want to go with the 4", is trying to find one. Now disagreeing with my previous post, I think we should try to stick with historical accuracy and see if we can get a 4" to put on the deck.
Travis - I agree...finding one is the key. Unfortunately that may not happen. But we have until the deck is replaced to actually decide. But in all honesty, I'd much rather put a gun on the sub that was an actual DECK GUN than modify a shore battery gun to "make it fit".
You have to ask yourself...of the two guns at the park, which one would be the "most" historically correct?
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Rick and I talked some about this yesterday. Nick also was at the park and he said this big gun was maybe off of a tender or something like that.
I think we are in agreement that the big gun WILL NOT be put on the sub. What will probably happen, and correct me Rick if I misunderstood, is that once the deck gets replaced, we'll put the 3 inch gun on the deck. If we can find/borrow/steal a 4 inch or 5 inch gun, then we'll remove the 3 inch and replace it with whatever we can get.
And it will be located aft of the bridge.
At least that is what I understood from our discussion.
Mark A.
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Are you running for Pres. or something? This is spoken with the best of the candidates. :2funny:
No after learning that the actuall deck gun was shorter then the 5 in that we have on the grounds this will be impratical. I do want to make it clear though that it was neve my intention to use that gun as it was displayed. Ht mounting definatly needed to be striped and replaced to make it close.
Anywho, I am not against using one of the 3 in.
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Well that sound better than nothing. lol. It will look really good having her full armament onboard! :)