SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
General Boards => Submarine Related Chatter => Topic started by: Travis McLain on March 12, 2008, 03:30:37 PM
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I am going to my local subvet meeting tonight, and was wondering if anyone had any questions they wanted me to ask some WWII Subvets. I will ask to record with my video camera so everyone can see the "interview" so if you have any questions just post them here.
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You don't need to tape this particular questions but I was wondering if they could describe the color green that they painted the interior of the boats with. Maybe compare it to something that we would relate to like Imodium medicine, anodized aircraft metal, etc. Few museum boats seem to have retained their original interior paint job.
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Dear Travis:
I have been on a journey for a few years now seeking something that would show just what a fleet boat's "shopping list" or combat loadout would be before setting out on patrol? What kinds of meat and how much of each? How much flour, sugar, potatoes and even toilet paper?
And Mark, back in 1984, myself and my teammates on the Silversides volunteer crew at the time researched the question of the interior paint and interviewed a number of former crewmembers who remembered the interior as being white. This was especially true in the control room close to the deck, below installations such as the trim manifold, diving stand, main vent control manifold and the high-pressure air manifold, where any leaks of hydraulic fluid would be easily seen on the white paint. Remember, I am not talking about the green linoleum deck, just the areas close to the hull. The Silversides' interior is white to this day.
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Ok guys I will do my best. Something I was doing was researching on the USSVI page was what boats they were on and one of them was on the U.S.S. Dolphin or V-7 heres some info on her: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08169.htm (http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08169.htm)
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And Mark, back in 1984, myself and my teammates on the Silversides volunteer crew at the time researched the question of the interior paint and interviewed a number of former crewmembers who remembered the interior as being white. This was especially true in the control room close to the deck, below installations such as the trim manifold, diving stand, main vent control manifold and the high-pressure air manifold, where any leaks of hydraulic fluid would be easily seen on the white paint. Remember, I am not talking about the green linoleum deck, just the areas close to the hull. The Silversides' interior is white to this day.
Thanks, Fred. I was watching Destination Tokyo last night and even though the film is b&w, the boat that they used for the film looked very white inside to me. Granted, some of it looked like it was a reproduction in a studio, but I'm sure that they faithfully recreated the interior of the boat that the Navy let them film with. Off topic, I thought that this was one of the better sub movies from the '40's and '50's.
So, my next question is where did all of this talk of green paint come from? I have heard it mentioned by several people on the SubSim forum and I think one of the museum boats currently has a green interior. I can't remember if I asked one of the vets that helps out at the Batfish or what his response was.
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Hi Mark! I believe talk of green paint and the practice of using it may be a spillover (no pun intended) from reserve days. I think there was a period where the Navy painted all ship interiors what I've heard called "puke green." I believe Ling's interior may be painted with it as are other museum boats. I believe Silversides' interior was painted that in the early years. Then around 1979-83, it was painted "ivory" (a light yellow) because that's what Rust-Oleum donated. And then we did he research and painted it white. The shined brass and bronze really stands out from a white background.
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Stripping paint from brass and polishing it is on the long list of to-do's for Batfish.
Personally, I like the white paint. The puke green would feel like I'm in an old bathroom or hospital ward.
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The inside of the Drum is a Seafoam Green color. It gave me the idea of the sickly blue/green color for the logo here.
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Well, there were no WWII subvets at the meeting last night, but alot of guys who had trained onboard the diesels. However they still did not know the answer to the questions you presented. One of the guys that was there was a ret. Lt. Cmdr who was on the SIlversides in the post war years, and had pictures of him visiting the Silversides, that was really cool. The head guy said he was going to give me some videos of a WWII subvet who passed away three years ago, and he was a survivor of the U.S.S. Tang, I can't wait to see that video of him, the subvets are in the same predicament of trying to transfer that video from VHS to DVD they say they have the dvd vhs combo that allows you to do it but it never works right for them.
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A Tang survivor? How great that is! I bet he had some stories.
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Yes, I bet he did.
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Travis
I would dearly love to know the name of the Tang survivor.
K0EFV Tom USMC
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The Tang survivor's first name is Clayton Decker I believe. The SUbVets said he passed away three years ago.
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Lance:
Great thanks a lot. I met Clay and his wife Ann some years ago and corresponded with them many times on the phone until his passing. Clay was not much on B.S. but he told me many stories including his final good bye to his closest buddy who elected to stay with the sub. As you may know as a POW, he was rhe cell mate of Greg Pappy Boyington. Clay gave me a book he published, which I loaned out and never got it back. I will see if I can find a replacement. Most of all I recall some of his descriptions of the final hours of the Tang. I also feel that I got to know the real Boyington by way of Clay. They were life long friends and clay described his final visit with Greg while he was in the hospital. I wish now I would have had the presence of mind to record him, but I thiought he would be with me forever. I have several phoitos of Clay and Ann if your interested. Here is some history on the Tang, Earlier in the war Wheeler Lipes A corpsman on the Sea Dragon SS194 performed an emergency appendectomy on a fellow crewman while the sub was submerged. using galley utinsels among other things. This was the very first and I understand one or two others did happen later on other subs. Some Navy brass even wanted to court marshall Lipes. A year ago or so the boys in Washington finally decided to invite him up for a special long overdue recognition award. Wheeler was in very bad health at the time and was unable to go and receive the award personally. He has since passed away. NOW THE REST OF THE STORY The crewman whose life Lipes saved was eventually transferred to the Tang and lost when she went down. Clay knew him but was not real close. My only contact with Lipes was an email that I sent him with some old photos etc. but never met him personally. I hope I have not bored you with all this.
K0EFV Tom USMC
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That is a great story KOEFV, I would be interested in those photos, my email is: pbgat@comcast.net
When the SubVets finally get the interview with Clay on DVD I will see if they can put it on youtube so you can see it.
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Great stuff. I never knew that Pappy got captured by the Japs.
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TRAVIS:
OK I will send some direct to you and mayve a cc to Lance and you can post them in the forum
Semper Fi
K0EFV Tom USMC
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Travis:
Sorry to be late with this reply. Re USS Tang SS-306 and Clay Decker. In my visits with Clay he mentioned Jesse Da Silva who was another Survivor and was taken POW also. I forgot I had found an account of the Tang's sinking written by Jesse Da Silva. I was just looking at it yesterday and remembered Jesse made reference to Clay receiving the Silver Star and Greg Boyington's role. It is a rather sad account of both the sinking and their treatment by the Japanese, and his return home. I did notice he did not mention the incident where the POW camp commander assembled Boyington and some of the prisoners , and commited Hari Kari (suicide) in front of them just before the liberation. You can find Jesse's acount at http://freehosting.net/tang.html If tou can't find it let me know and I will send it to you. Finaly If you get to see the video see if Clay mentions the book he was doing. He gave me a copy of it and I loaned it out and it never came back. I fogot the title and that would be a big help for me to get a replacement.
K0EFV
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I talked to the local subvets that knew him about the book, and they were not aware that he wrote a book, however they are looking into it. I will let you know as soon as they come back with the answer.
I was not able to get the webpage to come up.
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I am sorry here is the correct web address. amh.freehosting.net/tang
K0EFV
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http://amh.freehosting.net/tang.html (http://amh.freehosting.net/tang.html)
is the address you seek.
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Roger that, thanks Lance.
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RE: Clay Decker
The email I sent you had a picture of Clay & Ann. In the picture Clay is holding the book. It is very possible that he never got a chance to have it published and in print in that case we will not find it. It does show Boyington on the cover of the book. Thanks for the help and I will attach the photo to this reply.
K0EFV
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Don't ask a WW II subvet what color anything was. They were not in the job of taking notes and remembering that stuff. Your boat will tell you what colors it was painted, just ask... as in take a paint chip from an interior surface and inspect it. There is a handbook from the Secretary of the Interior on general guidelines for preservation and restoration of historic ships... please read it. Most of the boats got a general white coat at the time of construction that aged to a beige due to the oil content and the massive amounts of tar and nicotine from smoking. In 1944 the Navy instituted a program to increase the habitability of the boats and this included installation of both fluorescent lights and incandescent lights with the seafoam green and butter yellow colors on surfaces in crew spaces. The Officers staterooms were pretty much always the light green (I believe LING's very odd green is not standard issue). My guess is most of the boats never got painted in reserve days. It was not important. Sadly, at COD, a subvet got a ton of flat white housepaint from a neighbor who bought too much for his house... yes, before you knew it, active-duty era paint in the galley and crew's berthing space was covered (badly) with paint. Luckily, the painters were so bad that the tops of pipes and other shadow areas were left in their original (before 1959) colors.
Back to the warning about subvet memory: we at COD were very proud that we were able to restore our WWII vintage ice cream machine. During a reunion, we got it running for the crew. One of the vets of virtually all of COD's patrols took our director aside and said quietly "I don't want to rain on your parade, but COD NEVER had an ice cream machine!" My skipper told me what the veteran crewman said and later that night, at our banquet, I handed the vet a photograph of him standing in the galley, just a foot away from the ice cream maker that never was aboard. No one individual can remember anything from 65 years ago clearly. Take a bunch together in a room and give them a question, and chances are they will come to a correct answer, but individually, it's really a crap shoot. You have to know the answer yourself, using the evidence at hand and researching photos.
Paul
:uglystupid2:
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Seafoam green....I like that color!
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Today was the memorial for the U.S.S. Grayling (the boat given to Colorado SubVets to memorialize). They had a flyover, 7 gun salute, and tolling of the boats. Many WWII SubVets were in attendance, and I got to meet all but two, one of them after WWII put Nautilus into commision and sailed with her under the North Pole. One was on the Cavalla when they sank the aircraft carrier (name has escaped my mind) . I will try to post a video of the ceremony later on.
The SubVet from the Cavalla invited me to his house to chat about his WWII experiences.
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Get it on video, if you can. Can't wait to hear what he has to say.