SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
Individual Submarine Boards => USS Batfish (SS-310) => Topic started by: Shipwreck on September 26, 2008, 08:19:27 AM
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Here's the latest regarding our upoming October Work Week. Please, pass the information along if able.
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Bradley - very nice. Any problem with me posting this on the website? I'm sure it's OK...but I always ask when it's not my work.
Oh...I really like your graphic on top. Nice.
Mark A.
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Nice.
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Very impressive Bradley.
I'd like to learn more about the "cradle" that was mentioned.
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Similiar to how Drum is set up...
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I am going to make the Exec decision here. Go ahead and post this MarkA. We need everyone to see this.
Thanks for your help Bradley. It sure helps having someone with a linguistic flair to help out on this type of thing.
Rick
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Similiar to how Drum is set up...
Cool! Sometime I'd like to figure out just what all the subs are sitting on. I know that Cavalla, Batfish, Drum, Marlin, and Albacore are on land. From what I've seen, the Drum and the Marlin are the only ones up off the ground. It appears the Albacore and Cavalla are in some type of berth but maybe have some type of supports...I'm just unsure.
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Would I be able to send this report/ story into the OSU newspaper?
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apparently so...download the PDF and email it to them.
I'll be posting it on the website tonight.
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This is a very nice job! My only concern, as someone who writes for a living, is the line about how volunteers including 40 Sea Cadets, "will begin efforts to save the Batfish." That, to me, makes it sound like Batfish is in trouble and in danger of destruction. That has never been my understanding of Batfish's status, especially given the efforts in recent years of Rick, Marks Allen and Sarsfield, et al. Truly, Batfish, like all museum boats needs a little TLC and that's what this effort will provide. My thanks to all involved!
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"will begin efforts to save the Batfish." That, to me, makes it sound like Batfish is in trouble and in danger of destruction.
It also makes it sound like nothing has been done in the past. "Continue" would be a better choice.
Regardless, I'm pumped for the 18th and am looking forward to seeing all the workers out. I am hoping that Bradley is there. I've never met him and really want to pick his brain a bit to see what his thoughts are.
Good job to all!
Mark
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Sorry guys, I'm just now finding this post. I'm still learning how to navigate around.
YES - please pass the release on to, well... E V E R Y O N E!
As for the use of the line "save the Batfish" let me say this now...
Coming from the outside and not having the long history with the boat I am able to see what may not be as visible to those who may be more engrossed with her. Make no mistake - the Batfish is dying.
Take a real good look at her. Her interior is one thing (although is too is riddled with need) - but her superstructure is another. If you've been working on her decks than you would have noticed that her hull is coming apart. The bow has sheets of rust coming off and the torpedo doors and bays - geesh. Areas that were once strong steel are now paper thin and brittle. For example there is NO WAY her current torpedo loading platforms could be used. If I were to sit my big butt on any of them they would collapse - let alone the weight of a torpedo. Loading the new torpedos through the exterior tube doors appears to be the working sollution but man what a challenge!
She is a fire trap (as there is no fire supression system onboard) and her electrical system is the biggest risk for fire more than any other factor. According to standard fire codes, she shouldn't allow visitors. Furthermore, she is encrusted (that's a good word) with lead based paint that is falling off in millions of flakes. Her name is almost unreadable. She once sat on a shield to protect her from the ground, but has refloated TWICE in her stay there making the shield a moot point as sediments would have filled in the void left before she resetlled - at a list I might add. She is close to the water table and lord knows what her underside looks like. From the inside she may appear fine (as far as her lower hull) but when she is inspected for placing her on a cradle, I am very fearful of what we will find.
Work to repair and or restore the above problems like fire suppression and electrical can be done in a way that will still preserve the boat. But if she burns then all bets are off. She isn't a seagoing vessel anymore so the changes I am proposing can be accomplished with little to no impact on her integrity and history.
Lastly, she is an obscure relic that only a handfull are even aware of (10,000 guests a year is a handfull - when other like museums see over 100,000 or more per year) and she is hardly known by those living in Oklahoma. In fact, she was completely left out of the new tourism guide this year. How did that happen?
This is just a fraction of what all is going on. She IS NOT and HAS NOT belonged to a specific group nor is she or her museum facility just a big 'club house'. But her history is plagued with such use and in some cases neglect. I am not saying that there hasn't been thousands of volunteer hours and monies spent, but in her 35+ year history those efforts are only a small percentage of her story and needs. If things were to continue in this pattern based on the past 35+ years, in ten or at most twenty years from now, she would be condemned.
This is how I see her and why I think using language like SAVE the Batfish is important. I'm looking at the BIG PICTURE. Her fate rests in those who are committed to her NOW - not yester year. In the past few years a slew of committed volunteers have swarm to her defense. But what happens when five years pass? Will those same dedicated volunteers be able to do as much then too? What about five years ago? If we are to make a mark and at least preserve her for another 50 years, we have to do some serious work why we have the man power and synergy to do so. She and the overall Memorial park can become something greater than they are and her story - her legacy - and those she represents will be remembered by untold thousands for decades to come.
If I offended any of you with my comments, I apologize, as it was not my intent. But I am very passionate about keeping her around and have been dedicating a lot of effort toward her and the Memorial. Thanks for allowing me a moment on my soapbox.
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Yo Shipwreck, in case you don't know my story, I'm probably the greenest guy here. Not even a year ago I got to see a submarine for the first time in my life. It was the USS Drum, and thanks to Tom Bowser I learned a lot that day.
It wasn't all good. Take a look at this photo of the Drum:
(http://www.snakeyez.us/photos/memorialweekend2008/thumb/480DSC05534.JPG)
Once Tom got me interested, I learned that nearly ALL submarine museums are short on funds, volunteers, and visitors these days. I asked Tom if it would be helpful to have a place where submarine museum people could interact, and here we are! I figured there must be more clueless people out there like I was.
I'm embarrassed to say that only two years ago I had no idea that WWII era submarines still existed today as museums. And my grandfather was a WWII submarine veteran (http://www.submarinemuseums.org/forum/index.php?topic=191.0)!
What I'm trying to say is, the more I learn about the various submarine museums, they are nearly all in the same boat (ha ha). Something has happened along the way, and something needs to be done.
I believe that if more people discover these submarine museums, more help and more money will come.
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Coming from the outside and not having the long history with the boat I am able to see what may not be as visible to those who may be more engrossed with her.
Well, IMHO, I'd like to see more people engrossed with her than on the outside.
Her fate rests in those who are committed to her NOW - not yester year.
I agree and disagree. Yes her fate rests with the present and future, but with out those in the past that had the forethought to save the sub in the first place...we wouldn't be having this discussion. Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it. As you've already done, you've seen what has happened in the past and are now working on ways not to repeat it. I for one applaud your effort and will do anything I can to help you.
In fact, she was completely left out of the new tourism guide this year. How did that happen?
From stats I've been sending you...I'm getting several hundred hits per week...world wide. Type USS Batfish in any browser and my site will be the first one up. It's been on the net 10 years now and currently is the best "free" advertisement we have. That is why I tell Rick to promote it.
we have to do some serious work why we have the man power and synergy to do so.
I totally agree with this. However, I try and try to get workers out for a work day...only to get no answer or the "I can't make it" answer. If we could coordinate a day between the Relief Crew, the HAMS and the Re-eactors...we'd have the deck off in a weekend. That is why I'm excited about the sea cadets.
And please...no corporate buzz words >:( I get too much of that at work ;D (i.e. synergy...which I have no idea what it means).
No worries on my end with any of this. It's all good discussion for the good of the boat.
The best for the Batfish is still ahead.
Mark
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Synergy means cohesion, working together, etc, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy#Human_synergy
http://www.answers.com/topic/synergy
On topic, I think it's a great write up. I really like how it is worded, bought up etc. I'll be sending it out in emails.
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John - I'm sorry my sarcasm was lost on you. :coolsmiley: Being in the corporate world for too many years, I was well aware of what it meant.
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Well, IMHO, I'd like to see more people engrossed with her than on the outside.
I agree and disagree. Yes her fate rests with the present and future, but with out those in the past that had the forethought to save the sub in the first place...we wouldn't be having this discussion. Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it. As you've already done, you've seen what has happened in the past and are now working on ways not to repeat it. I for one applaud your effort and will do anything I can to help you.
Ahh, but this is the problem that folks keep missing - Yes it is important that those of the past saved her, but that is part of her STORY and not her SURVIVAL. Passion and love and understanding and all that DOES NOT pay the bills of the Memorial, Physically restore the boat, install new decking, etc etc tc.
The problem with the past is that we keep looking there instead of focusing on the future of the Batfish War Memorial. The past is what we will read about in the museum and see in the videos and experience through engaging exhibits, etc, etc etc.
To throw one of my own phrases out there - If you want to keep getting what you're getting, keep doing what you are doing.
For the first time in decades, there is a common goal right now and the right people are coming together at the right time and with the right mind set and the right tools. If we don't act and be consistant about it, then the Batfish is doomed because we are acting at a time when she MUST be taken care of NOW because later she will be too far gone.
I also agree with your earlier post regarding volunteers. I mentioned this in another post on the board. No matter what nonprofit you are associated with - you will NEVER have the perfect compliment of Volunteers, Staff, and Completed Tasks. We work those we get and always recruit more. What DOES help is when folks see enough happening on a consistant level. When they see it - they believe it - they support it. Stop the efforts and the whole thing grinds to a halt - so too the support. It is A LOT of work operating a museum and will be even more for THIS particular museum (not to say that others aren't having their fair share too).
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John - I'm sorry my sarcasm was lost on you. :coolsmiley: Being in the corporate world for too many years, I was well aware of what it meant.
It was hard to tell. I have seen a lot of people who didn't know words alot more common than synergy. I mean look at You Tube comments and you'll see what I have to deal with on a daily basis. <sigh> Instead of history classes maybe we should start with spelling.
CAT....C-A-T.
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Ahh, but this is the problem that folks keep missing - Yes it is important that those of the past saved her, but that is part of her STORY and not her SURVIVAL. Passion and love and understanding and all that DOES NOT pay the bills of the Memorial, Physically restore the boat, install new decking, etc etc tc.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because although I see your point, I can't see how you can separate the past from the present (or future). Keeping the boat afloat is also part of her story too, just a different chapter.
I think "passion and love and understanding" does help pay the bills. Without any of that from the beginning up until now, there would be no memorial. There would be no one to come out and pull the deck, or re-enact, or raise money for it, or....etc. Look at your own passion. Your passion is helping pay the bills. Correy's passion is helping pay the bills. You guys are raising money to keep the doors open so the relief crew can come out and apply our passion.
Yes, we need to focus on survival, but not to the point we forget about the past. After all, the past is what we remember the ship and the crew for. Right? Or am I missing the whole point here. Ask yourself "why am I interested in the Batfish?" Is it for the pat on the back for raising money? Is it because you like to re-enact? Is it because you want fame and recognition? I know people like that. A few unnamed people in the past would come out only when a reporter was there...or when Channel 6 showed up. Otherwise you never saw them.
To answer that question for myself, I do it out of respect for the crew and the sub...plus I do it so that people won't forget our past. I push the website not for my own glory, but because it's FREE advertising for the sub and museum. Have you looked at the stats I've been sending? A lot of people from all over the world are visting the website which, and from emails I get, is generating foot traffic. Everyone and everything is working together for the good of the boat.
I see your point...I really do. But all I ask is that you be considerate of others with a different view point. I am concerned about the future of the boat, but I am also enthralled about it's history. I have a hard time separating the two...
Mark A.
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Mark,
First, by no means was I intending to be insulting or poo poo on the passion. But I'm a realist and know that you can love something all the way to the umpteenth, but in the end, in our case we have to get physicaly involved. Love doesn't paint the boat, although it can help give reason to do so. Her past story - especially her harrowing journey up the Arkansas River certainly need to be remembered and shared, as they will bring awareness to the cause, but the cause has to have an effect - raising dollars to pay for the needs.
This is what I am meaning with my earlier post. I want to raise the money as that is what will make the physical repairs and changes so needed. Yes, i want to remember everything else and her amazing story and crew(s) and all those who never returned. But if we can't physically repair the boat - all that will be left is memories.
Now perhaps in my earlier email it may have seemd that I didn't put as much importance on the volunteer acts and her story,etc - but I really do care for these important pieces. They are what make up the whole and we AS A TEAM make up her caretakers. We will have to draw on every resource to make it happen. I just wanted people to know that they can 'care' but they also have to 'act'.
Also, just for the record, I want no pats on the back, awards, or other recognition. I do this because I believe it to be my civic duty and my own personal way to 'ne obliviscaris' - Never Forget (Our BLHA motto)
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Right on Bradley.
No insult taken...just discussing the issue. I guess being the Batfish historian, I tend to focus on history more than the other, although it's always on my mind as we are working on the deck. But it's like you said we individuals make up the whole. I guess we compliment each other...I look to the past (history) and you look towards the future (salvation). It's all good. Personally I'm glad you are doing it as no one else other than Rick has shown an interest. And again, if I can assist with anything, please let me know.
I liked your statement about caring AND acting. I'd like to point out right here that even though we are in the middle of the deck project...don't feel obligated to do that...come on out anyway, there is grounds work, cleaning, and a ton of other things you can do. For those who read this and can't come...pony up some cash to help paint the boat. Yeah, but since others are putting in shameless plugs...thought I would too :)
Also, just for the record, I want no pats on the back, awards, or other recognition
Not even another BZ? :D ;) ;D
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Now the BZ's I don't mind.... :2funny:
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...For those who read this and can't come...pony up some cash to help paint the boat. ...
Mark, do you guys have a tax-deductible donation fund set up somewhere yet? So far, I know of only 2 sub museums that are using their local USSVI base as a way to accept monetary donations. The USS Drum through the Mobile Bay Base (http://www.mobilebaybase.com) and the USS Croaker through the Buffalo Base (http://www.ussvibuffalo.org/croaker_future.html). I don't know how difficult it was to set up these accounts, but if your local USSVI base is looking for a project this would be a great one.
Of course, you may have a way to make tax-deductible donations straight to the Batfish already, as you guys have an advantage in this department already. You don't have a big ass destroyer or battleship or aircraft carrier that sucks up all the donated money before it gets to the submarine. :)
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Mark, do you guys have a tax-deductible donation fund set up somewhere yet?
I believe so, the Batfish Foundation was set up for that purpose.
Maybe Rick can clarify and give more details.
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Rick said that they can handle the donations, but what happens is they get this big pot of money and then they get bogged down in beauracracy as to what to do with the money. There's a large sum sitting in their pot right now that is tied up.
He's said it's better if say a company comes in and offers to donate materials and labor rather than someone donating the money and then trying to get the board to approve the money for a given contractor to perform the work.
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Rick said that they can handle the donations, but what happens is they get this big pot of money and then they get bogged down in beauracracy as to what to do with the money. There's a large sum sitting in their pot right now that is tied up.
He's said it's better if say a company comes in and offers to donate materials and labor rather than someone donating the money and then trying to get the board to approve the money for a given contractor to perform the work.
This is EXACTLY why those USSVI bases set up their funds for those submarines. The Mobile Bay Base hands the money sent to them directly to Tom Bowser. Of course he keeps everyone updated on what the money is being used for. Imagine if there was a fund set up where the money was delivered straight to Rick?
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This is a long storey that goes back before I was here. I will not go into details online.
Rick