SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
General Boards => Submarine Related Chatter => School of the Boat => Topic started by: Darrin on September 09, 2008, 05:16:18 PM
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Sorry about the delay with the school of the boat folks, damned storms like to come through and mess up things ???
Today we start into the next block of instruction and as mentioned earlier we are going to be working with the Air Systems......
First thing that we are going to be covering is the LOW pressure side of the air systems and where the air is generated from and what are ALL of the uses for it.. I.E. Ships Horn, etc
After this block is completed we will be tying the two systems we just completed together and why they needed to be taught in the sequence that took place..
Good luck folks and lets all learn something together on this one ok????
Darrin
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I'll start - the Low Air Pressure system is called Low Air Pressure system because it is at a low air pressure - duh! Now everyone start answering Darrin's question of the week. :-X
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What is the question exactly? We need to list low pressure air systems, where the air is generated from, and what are the uses?
I'll try to look up some answers later. I have to go rake/bale/haul hay today.
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ALL,
to clarify the question a little bit so it will be "clear as muck"
Where is the low pressure air generated from?? I.E. is it reduced or is there a compressor that does that.
Next part of the question what are the pressures used in the LOW pressure air system and what are those different air pressures used for??
Good luck all
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Without looking at the copius research material only a few steps away, I will say this off the top of my flat head:
THe low pressure air comes from the low pressure blower and is used to empty the last bit of water from the ballast tanks? It also provides some force for blowing sanitaries on the surface??? :-\ The ship's horn is 250 lb from a reducer on the 600-lb leg of the air bank?
What the hell do I know? But the curtains in the officers' quarters still need rings!!!
PF
:crazy2:
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Are you sure about the LOW PRESSURE air coming from the LP Blower??? just wondering :-X
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How about 250# ships service air and 100# air. Air is produced by God, but pressurized by the HP air compressors at 3000#. That air is pressed into the HP air flasks located in the ballast tanks. The air is admitted into the hull through the HP air manifold and reduced to 250#. From there it is distributed through the ships service air manifold to places like diesel start air, fuel oil transfer. It is reduced at the fresh water tanks by local reducers to pressurize the tanks. THere are a number of air stations throughout the boat where portable air tools can be plugged in.
The LP blowers are used for blowing the ballast tanks not for service air.
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Pretty close there Chief, the low pressure air system (Service Air) is 225 PSI that IS reduced from the 3000 PSI air system (and not produced using a low pressure air compressor or the LP blower) and the 225 PSI provides air for approximatly 100 operations. To be nice I will tell you that the LOWEST PSI used is 8 PSI
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Page 126 through 129:
"The 225-pound service air manifold is located in the control room on the starboard side aft of the high-pressure manifold. This manifold receives its supply of air through two Grove pressure-reducing valves which reduce the high-pressure air from 3,000 psi to 225 psi."
That's where the 225-pound "ship's service air" comes from.
Control room:
100 psi for pneumatic tools and whistle and siren
Fwd battery:
8 psi for the battery water tanks
Fwd torpedo:
100 psi for pneumatic tools
12 psi for #1 and #2 fresh water tanks
Aft battery:
8 psi for the battery water tanks
Crew's quarters:
up to 105 psi for #2 sanitary blow line
Fwd engine and Aft engine:
up to 15 psi for fuel oil manifold
13 psi for lubricating oil manifold
100 psi for pneumatic tools
Aft torpedo:
100 psi for pneumatic tools
Whew!
Don't worry, I missed something. What was it?
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ABSOLUTELY GREAT job there Lance.... you got the BIG ones and when ALL of us read (that includes me) the rest of that part of the LOW pressure series we will hopefully have a better understanding of what these boats are capable of. Now I will leave the San tank lines alone because you only ID'd the #2 tank and no others as to needing air pressure to blow them out...
The absolute WORST thing to hear as a below decks watch on the 1MC after lining up to BLOW the san tanks is.... coming from topside.... SECURE BLOWING THE SAN TANKS...... or my absolute favorite underway is A-gang or "M" Div selectively forgetting to put the notice on the heads notifying the crew NOT to open the ball valve because we are blowing SANS overboard.. More then a few sailor's have found out that the air pressure to eject the sanitary tanks overboard is more then enough to cover them in more ways then one in waste products...
One of my best friends on the Honolulu was standing topside and I was below decks and I had gone by the book and line everything up and pressurized the system to the PROPER air pressure when over the 1MC the word came across to "SECURE BLOWING OF THE SANITARY TANKS" upon going topside to find out what the hell happened AFTER securing the blow and line up I found my friend covered in poo and PISSED OFF as all get out (he was a MM and I was a TM)... Seems that when our "A" division put the sanitary pier connection on it wasn't all the way tight because he was the recipiant of the result (funny part is that he was in A div) so I stood 2 watches at the same time until he was able to get back up in a clean pair of dungerees...
The duty officer wasn't too happy either but after getting done laughing he told me that I was standing both watches until he was showered and in a clean uniform and then when I got off watch I was going to wash down topside (was the deck div LPO at the time) so that the poo wouldn't be there in the morning... wasn't a happy camper after that but my friend stayed with me because we were both former deck div and 3rd classes at that point and just wanting that to go away..
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Great job Lance. As you can see low pressure air is important.
Darrin - that was a shi...y story! LOL How many times has some guy got a face full!
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I have a text book from sub school - Basic Enlisted Submarine Text, Part 1 - was there a part two? The book does not mention a part two. The book has 16 chapters that parallel the Fleet Type Submarine Manual, with updates that include boats in use in the 1960's.
I remember carrying around a few books at sub school - just can't remember them all. Anyone have a list of books required during sub school?
Those that care this book is NAVPERS 10490
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Hey JT the really sh!**y thing about that story is that he OFFERED to take topside for me because I had just qualified below decks a couple of weeks earlier and I was more then happy to get off of the topside roster and put on the below decks watch were I could catch a movie or at least walk around and bullshit with people.
Food for thought though with blowing sanitaries overboard is that IF you forgot to put the sign on the door and a shipmate was on the throne doing what submariners do underway after chow... IF someone asked for a curtesy flush....... :2funny:
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Man I know what you mean - topside watch was tough at night. We had many creatures wondering around. Pulled my 45 one night on a giant wharf rat. I was glad to start standing watch below decks.
OH Many these are big....
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Don't remember the rats being THAT big, what in the heck were ya feedin it??? miricle grow :2funny: heck put it to work paintin topside and kick it's butt overboard on the way out of the harbor ;)
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I think they came over with one of the Turkish boats that visited us.
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Ok folks WHAT else are we missing from the LOW pressure air system???? now that we have covered the basics and the sickening things that can happen when using the LP air for what it was intended for and people aren't properly notified :2funny:
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OK, I’m not sure what Darrin is still after, so here goes nothing as they say…
First there are 5 main air systems on the Balao-class submarine
1. 3000# High Pressure and Torpedo Impulse air
2. 600# MBT blow system
3. 225# service air system
4. 10# MBT blow system
5. Salvage Air system
So if Darrin is talking about low air pressure system, he may just be referencing the 10# MBT blow system because the 225# air maybe low but it is dangerous. Also. because is has so many reductions to other pressures, it is widely used for justd about anything. Common reductions include 100#, 13#, 12#, 10# and 8#.
The 10# MBT blow system has a LP blower, driven by a 90 HP motor, located in the pump room, a manifold located in the control room, and 9 blow lines extending out of the manifold through the pressure hull that run outside in the superstructure to all ballast tanks. (1 – 7). Each tank is control by a flapper valve and swing-check valves. There is also a gate check valves that are operated from the deck.
The 10# MBT blow system is used on the surface to complete the job of blowing the MBT’s that is done by the 600# MBT blow system.
In addition, the 10# MBT blow system is used for list control during and after blowing the main ballast tanks. This is done using the list control dampers to adjust the amount of air admitted into the port and starboard MBT (#2 and #6 groups – remember each group has four main ballast tanks - A, B, C, D). The dampers are located at the Y connections of the 10# Blow Manifold, and are hand operated at the aft end of the manifold.
Important – the 10# manifold and its valves are designed to withstand sea pressure if any blow line fails.
So the 10# MBT has two main functions – 1) complete the blowing of the main ballast tanks (and fuel ballast tanks if needed), and 2) list control using the #2 and #6 MBT groups.
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That was what I was looking for JT, great job all...
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:D went crazy (ier) looking this one up! Good question to makie a person think! Thanks. :crazy2:
And Lance you still had a great answer!
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LOL oh well. I never realized air was used for so many things.
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Air is one of those things we can't live without in a submarine! Unless you have the portholes open that is :crazy2:
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That closes out the LOW pressure air systems and now IF you have a museum boat near and you start your walk through you will be able to hopefully have a better understanding of what all of the valves in the overhead were for and why they are there and yes there are a few boats that have most if not all of their airbanks brought back online, granted they will never see 3000 PSI ever again but they are still used for starting the diesel's and blowing the tanks dry and the big one for all of us is for using air tools.
Tomorrow's school of the boat we will be working with the HIGH pressure air system.