SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
General Boards => Museum Submarine Discussion => Topic started by: Ctwilley on November 12, 2008, 08:24:01 PM
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Are there any museums out there that have a pair of the sandals worn by the WW2 crews? I'm trying to find some pictures of exactly what they looked liked.
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I know there are a pair of sandals in a display case in the Drum. I'm not sure if they are vintage or not though. Perhaps Tom could tell you.
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We have a pair of sandals worn by COD crewman Gene Leonard of Cleveland, Ohio, in one of our display cases... he certified that he wore them aboard COD during his patrols. They're all leather with belt buckle straps. The Navy authorized the wearing of sandals and open-toe shoes to reduce the damaging effects of foot fungus in the humid environment on subs in the tropics. Some crewmen took regular shoes and cut them away to provide the same ventilation. I'll get a shot of them Friday (if I remember :uglystupid2: ) and post it here...
PF
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Excellent! I have a couple of different companies that are willing to remake them for me and the other living history guys. The WW2 sub world was far removed from most navy regs so I wasn't sure that they were actually even Navy approved items. If you or anyone else has access to any of the "modified" uniforms could you shoot me some pics of those too? I've seen an original chambray that had the sleeves removed by the wearer. Pics of other mods would also be greatly appreciated. :)
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Chambrays, dungarees, boondockers or sandals, sweatshirts, sweater vests, all have been worn aboard COD in her photos... there really weren't dress codes at sea in the tropics.
Just never saw anyone wearing dress caps like you see in movies!
:laugh:
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That's the truth. I've never seen a candid photo or reel that has everyone in "proper" attire. One vet I talked to was saying that most of the guys in his crew worked in sandals, undershorts, and if they were on the deck, a hat. He said that when it got really hot, they would take their towels and wash rags and put a belt around them to wear them like a skirt or loin cloth. I've heard of the mosquito boat guys doing the loin cloth thing too.
I'm not thinking the public would be much into seeing us wearing loin cloths so I may forego that one. :o
That's where living history reaches the thin line. You have to do your best to be accurate but can only do things so accurately without a lawsuit. One of the greatest tests of a living history group's ability is to take a b/w picture of them with a period 35mm camera and mix it in with a bunch of real photographs and see if you can pass yours off as an original.
Case in point. See if you can tell which of these photographs were taken at a living history event and which were not.
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Correy,
I have always been told that these sailors wore 2 uniforms. One was thire blues, This one they wore on thier way out to sea so that they looked good for the people waving bye at the docks. Once at sea, they changed into their duty uniform.
Rick
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Actually more than two. Dress and undress blues and whites, then work uniform (dungrees). Blues were a winter or cold weather uniform, and whites for the topics or summer.
One of our MM in the forward engine room, we called Scrotum, wore a ball cap and is boots while on watch most of the time staying in the lowere level. I guess you can figure out why we called in Scrotum... :crazy2: Yes he was naked more times than not on watch.
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OK a certified Air Force recaction...
EWWWW...
Just my point though. Understandibly, why bring a bunch of clothing along if you do not have the storage and you know they are going to be ruined by the end of patrol.
Rick
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Also, in the Pacific, a lot of the CO's let the guys wear their whites as dress uniforms. They were cooler than the dress blues.
I have a copy of a reel that has none other than Adms. Nimitz and Halsey aboard the U.S.S. Skate. and in the group of sailors they are addressing are some of the craziest mix and match uniforms I've ever seen. White bottoms with a chambray shirt and an HBT cap, sunglasses, sandals, and of course full beards. I also have several pictures of several guys with cutoff dungaree shorts. The Admirals didn't seem to mind at all.
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I can only speak about the time that I spent on 688's and we wore 4 different uniforms depending on when and where we were arriving to... With that, in the begining we wore dungaree's pulling into Pearl.. then on WestPac '91 we wore undress whites until the fall on the California coast where we pulled out our Dress blues, then returned to Pearl in Dress Whites.. Later in my time in Pearl we wore dungarees and then Dress whites (after an EastPac) and finally finishing in "poopie suits" before I got out in '94. Underway we wore poopie suits that in some cases had been cut down in the sleeves BUT on the 688's they stayed so damned cold especially operating north that it was not unusual to see foul weather jackets worn ontop of the poopie suits and then handing them off to the on coming watch so that they would stay warm. Now in port and shore power dropped and the reactor was down we would crank up the F/M 38 1/8 Dinky and our A-Gangers would strip down to next to nothing to keep cool while the kids running the microwave could get it running again or shore power was restored.
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OK, I'm gonna take the WWII ARMY picture challenge!
My guess is that the ALL are recent shots! Why? although they are EXTREMELY accurate, and many were probably taken with old cameras... the film quality of today is just sooooo much better than the old Kodak XX, Verichrome, and Anscopan films used in WW II... and what we thought was worth a picture in WWII is not what we think of today in our snapshot culture! Maybe the guys peeking over the hedgerow... but I think they're all modern.
But again... REALLLY GOOD JOB done by reenactors! Bravo ZULU! ;)
What is the answer?
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Good job! You're correct. All of them are shots taken within the last five years. You are also correct with the film. You can replicate almost everything but there are just some things that can't (or shouldn't) be replicated...like Mr. Scrotum. :buck2:
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I was glad I was up in the forward torpedo room - and Scrotum was back aft in the forward engine room... :crazy2:
That is a lot of equipment those reenactors seem to have.
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Sub sandals of WWII...
:coolsmiley:
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We never had these by the time I was in, so I don't recognize them. It did get hot in the boat especially in the engine rooms and maneuvering room. But no one cut off the toes of their shoes either.
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It sure is nice to have color films and scores of BW photos... and lots of sandals... NHC has good shots, some do show the homemade sandals (as in cutting up regular shoes).
:o
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Man, I owe you one for this picture. I've only caught glempses of them but never full on shots. These shouldn't be too hard to remake.
As far as the reenactors go, we try to either buy or reproduce every item that they would have been issued. In all of the groups that I'm with (1830's-1940's) we strive for 100% accuracy. Our goal is when giving tours or talking to people aboard the boat, to point at what we're wearing and say "this is what it was" not "it was something like this...just disregard the Nike swoosh".
It's been my experiance that people want to touch history. They want to feel, smell, taste, and breethe the lives of their ancestors. In a museum setting, you can't always do that as you have to take into consideration the preservation of items for future generations. In my humble opinion, no museum is complete without a good exhibit, well trained staff, and a trained and proficient living history program.
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All due respect but I firmly believe a successful museum needs other more important things before the living history program, including the ability to raise adequate funds and spend them wisely, and a dedicated and reliable corps of volunteers who can complete restoration work and act as docents. I think there are some pretty complete and terrific museums, including some of the submarines represented here that don't have living history programs.
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Now wait a minute guys, you're both right! The cobbler cain't make barrels and the butcher will not write music... living history guys are into living history, not curation or interpretation of ships...
BTW: How often do you Batfish reenactors get slapped in the face by women who may not want to "touch, taste, and smell history?" ;D
A good sub with a good living history group would be a unique experience ! One that I can say I've never had!
I tried to do a first-person living history program on COD many years ago (mid-1990s)... had everything down, even WWII change (coins) in my pocket!
Sadly, a couple of the numbskull subvets went apeshit over the concept of a non-submariner portraying a WWII COD captain... one dipshit (no longer a member of the "team" even suggested that he might call the cops and turn me in for "impersonating an officer!" Yea, it was that much fun at times working with some subvets (not all, by any means)... but we seemed to attract some folks at COD that had their priorities askew!
Combine thread-counters and uber-curators, and you have a time machine!
Good luck!
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Woah there Fred. I'm by no means forgetting the volunteers. By "well trained staff" I meant volunteers as well as paid staff (they both work equally as hard but one just get's paid with warm fuzzies). I guess I look at living history as the icing on the cake. Sure you can eat the cake without the icing and it tastes pretty good. But man it sure adds to it when you put the icing on, and without the cake, you only have a bucket of icing. You don't NEED both but it adds flavor.
As for my experiances with getting slapped...is seems to work the other way. Most women don't seem to mind seeing a bunch of sweaty guys without shirts on. In fact, one woman wanted to feel of one of my TM's dungarees to see what the fabric felt like and without asking just "copped a feel". Judging by the look on his face I think he felt a little violated. :2funny:
I haven't had any guys get licked but this is a strange world we live in now so I wouldn't put it past someone.
I had the same experiance with some people going apeshit when we were trying to get this started. I first talked with a good many of the vets and got permission from Capt. Woodward (the last CO of the Batfish) to portray her captain. They were all very receptive to the idea. I've had the run-in with a yay-hoo that wanted to "turn me in". First, I quoted the regulations back to him in regards to the portraying an officer and it only applies to current military officers...not past ones. Then he tried to turn me in for wearing ribbons, particularly the bronze star one. I explained to him that he needed to take that up with General Patraeus since he signed the order for the 2 that I recieved while I was in Iraq and the government seemed to think that it was ok for me to wear them. He left us alone after that. :coolsmiley:
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While I love the Internet, the Web and BBSes for the immediacy of responses and information, it prevents people from seeing the expressions and body language of the others with whom they are having a conversation and see that there's nothing personal. My bad if I sounded brusque. Your work and attention to Batfish go beyond living history.
I agree that a good living history program can be the icing on the cake. My point is that frequently with ship museums of any size, the cake definitely has to be made first, and often a few layers of it, and it often takes a while, all before the icing can be spread.
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Stop it...you guys are making me hungry :D Make my cake German Chocolate ;)
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Well, a co-worker and I just this morning were talking about how much more variety there is in Texas barbecue (brisket, ribs, sausages, chicken, turkey, etc) versus other parts of the country. Needless to say, I was ready for a plate.
You all should be salivating by now.
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Speaking of which, you missed our Japanese birthday cake in August. Our cook baked a birthday cake and we iced it to look like a cake seen in a picture on one of the other boats during the war. It had the rising sun flag and was titled "Happy Spankin' Tojo Day".
I guess that's where we definately agree. I look at living history like this. We're supposed to be portraying what these guys wore, did, and how they lived. Part of what they did was if something in their compartment was broken, they fixed it. It's the coolest thing to see a bunch of WW2 dressed TM's breaking down and PMCSing a torpedo tube. We have to restore the components to properly portray the crew so they really fit hand in hand. I guess we're really a bunch of WW2 dressed volunteers that do restoration work. Eventually, we'll do torpedo tube loading domonstrations and GQAA, GQ Torpedo, and Damage Control drills for the public but we have to get those systems semi-functional before we can.