Messages

1

Submarine Related Chatter / Re: Fairbanks injector test stand

« on: May 26, 2012, 04:49:14 PM »

Frank - did you ever locate a test stand? We have one at PAMPANITO that I'm sure we could arrange to loan -- but it is heavy (~100#).

///SOB

2

Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: Compartment Bills

« on: December 11, 2011, 05:01:06 PM »

Mike - perhaps a longshot but if you have TORSK's construction or overhaul drawings, you should find complete compartment checkoff list wording.

3

Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: Bubble Clinometers

« on: December 11, 2011, 04:53:33 PM »

Rich's meticulous attention to detail shines thru yet once more! The clinometers are truly 4.0. I know he spent hundreds of hours getting every detail correct - so much so that he found the original WW-II manufacturer of the glass bubble tubes and obtained replicas made to the original WW-II plans.

On to a less pleasant topic --

I swear no matter what kind of visitor-proofing is installed in PAMPANITO, if a knob can be twisted, lever pulled, or switch thrown, someone will do so - without any idea of the consequences.

Thus, to limit liability and protect historic fabric, we must visitor-proof everything. Whatever works in Cleveland sure as hell does NOT work in San Francisco.

Every time we line up to run an engine, we check each and every switch that visitors can access, then unlock and activate the DC bus tie - then double-check everything that now has power available.

Sure as hell, even with an alert, roving below-decks watch, motor controllers get activated by roaming fingers about 25% of the time.

The ICMG switchboard in Maneuvering is well protected - but even then, someone manages to get their fingers behind the plexiglass and snaps one or two switches.

Theft has been a problem from time-to-time but it has been relatively minor for some time now. Ditto vandalism. [knocking on wood here]

The sad fact of life is that some visitors do not respect historic fabric and more to the point, some parents don't give a hoot in hell how destructive their bratty kids' behavior can be.

Another volunteer and I watched one ~8-year-old come thru Control one day with us standing right there -- he ran over to the hydraulic manifold, literally braced his feet, then began jerking the main vent valve control handles.

When they didn’t move, he began spinning the IMO pump switch like a roulette wheel.

About this time, I asked him to stop doing that. In response, he spun around and began jamming the helm to-and-fro.

Get this - his mother was indignant that I dared tell the little bastard to behave himself.

I sure wish I understood what is so magical about Cleveland that makes your visitors respectful of COD.

4

School of the Boat / Re: School of the Boat 1 Nov 10 (valve line up DIESEL's)

« on: August 11, 2011, 06:04:40 PM »

HEY SOB, can you send the Torsk the CD that you all put together so they can see how you all have your FW and other systems set up?

Darrin - happy to share our Engine Operatin Manual with anyone who wants/needs it - better yet, send me your E-mail addy and I'll send you the files - all in MSWord. Waiting for Rich Pekelney to get time to put it on PAMPANITO's website.

5

School of the Boat / Re: School of the Boat 1 Nov 10 (valve line up DIESEL's)

« on: July 17, 2011, 06:53:22 PM »

There are two ways to safely operate FM38Ds without the salt water side of the cooling system running. This applies to boats in or out of the water - or a blanked, welded sea chest.

NOTE: The FW side of the engine MUST be filled and operational - otherwise, you'll get hot spots and damage the engine.

1) You can run a FM38D for about 20 minutes with ONLY the FW side functioning. Monitor the direct reading thermometer in the FW engine-to-cooler line. Remain below 170^oF. Normal is 160^oF. Your muffler will NOT be cooled in this mode, so you may want to consider bypassing it. The latter is NOT necessary, especially if you want to have an authentic picture from dockside.

2) Second Method - See attachment. PAMPANITO has the following modification:

a) Make damn certain your sea chest valve is SHUT (or blanked) and not leaking;
b) Remove the 3/4" steamout plug on the top plate of the salt water strainer;
c) Install a stop valve with a hose fitting on the input side to the valve;
d) Rig a heavy duty garden hose (7/8" or larger) from a FW source to the stop valve. You need 40+psi of FW.
e)Use FW in the place of SW when you run the engine. As before, monitor the FW temp and remain below 170^oF

6

School of the Boat / PAMPANITO's VOLUNTEER MANUAL ONLINE - OTHERS COMING

« on: April 14, 2011, 05:02:37 AM »

Thanks to Rich Pekelney's efforts, we are slowly but surely getting our series of manuals uploaded to the PAMPANITO website. Presently, the Volunteer Manual is available at

<http://www.maritime.org/pres/pampvolunteer.pdf>

Next up will be the reballasting manual - which boats still in the water will hopefully find useful.

The long-awaited and even longer-overdue engine operating manual [FM-38D-1/8X10] is just about ready after an agonizing series of edits as we continue to discover and restore dumbshitalts that got plugged in over the years. We still haven't solved the CFOT - engine-attached fuel oil pump line blockage but can run using the priming pump. I learned today from another long-term volunteer that the obstruction question has persisted for many years.

After the engine operating manual gets posted, we'll be putting a hydraulic system manual together -- Jim Kyser, Harry Nystrom, and I have been wrestling that system and can now raise scopes, etc. with the accumulator in the circuit. That system drawing package is accurate but cluttered and needs to be cleaned up.

Jim Kyser and team have stripped a HPAC down to parade rest and are in the process of rebuilding it from the bottom-up. Fortunately, Jim located original rings for all 4 stages and is in the process of removing the old ones and cleaning the grooves. Beastly task to say the least. Kevin Petersen and John Zulauf are growing hernias with heavy labor and are currently beginning to scrape in the main and thrust bearings.

Finally, the PAMPANITO Committee has started publishing a newsletter that is an adaptation of the regular report we submit to the Board of Trustees. The second issue is in preparation and will be available for E-mail distribution. Once we get our distribution system set up, I'll post a followup here so anyone interested in getting on the distribution list can sign up - and request a copy of the first report as well. They will also give updates on literally dozens of restoration tasks Rich Pekelney is spearheading, ranging from reinstallation of the WWII IFF equipment, diving stand clinometers -- those of you who know Rich can well appreciate his skills and zeal.

///SOB

7

Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: How can you help a Museum Boat?

« on: January 12, 2011, 07:08:36 AM »

What does Cavalla do about restrooms?  That seems to be a limiting factor for sleepovers. 

PAMPANITO is fortunate to be able to use the crew's head and #2 San - we have a hose connection to the sewer on the pier and fresh water aboard the boat. Instead of blowing, we use a submersible pump.

While San Francisco weather is "mild" compared to a lot of other places, it still gets damn cold - even frosty on rare occasion. And our wind, especially at night, cuts thru you like a knife.

For safety reasons, we don't want the overnighters going topside at night if it can be avoided. Thus the head on the pier doesn't get any useage until in the morning - then there is a long line of youngsters standing on one foot, then the other. 

///SOB

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Museum Submarine Discussion / PAMPANITO SURGE ANCHOR PROJECT

« on: October 25, 2010, 10:50:03 PM »

GO TO:

http://maritime.org/moorings2010/index.htm

Good presentation put together by PAMPANITO Ship's Manager Aaron Washington and Rich Pekelney ..

///SOB

9

USS Pampanito (SS-383) / PAMPANITO Receives New Mooring

« on: September 18, 2010, 04:28:11 PM »

See Photos Here --- http://maritime.org/moorings2010/index.htm

Over Thursday and Friday, 09/16 & 17/2010, PAMPANITO received a new surge anchor system that holds the boat off the pier. This project, easily worth over $150K, was donated 100% by a consortium of companies. Rich Pekelney led the effort on PAMPANITO's end and obtained the following donated goods and services:

1- Engineering design of the system - Bittner Shen Consulting Engineers, Inc
2- Review and Approval - NAVSEA
3- Four 10T Navy stockless anchors, six shots of chain - US Maritime Administration, Susuin Bay Reserve Fleet.  
4- Loading of anchors and chain - MARAD mobile crane barge FS-65 MARY ANN.
5- One shot of chain - Dutra Group
6- Tugboat MARYANNE, multiiple crew changes to push BARGE 34 from Richmond to Susuin Bay for pickup and return to Richmond - Westar
7- BARGE 34 - Manson Construction Inc
8- Multiple certified shackles and three inch center link - Manson Construction Inc
9- Two long days and multiple crews for tugboat TERILYN - Westar
10- Two long days and multiple crews for Crane barge HAGAR, workboat POINT RICHMOND - Manson Construction
11- And finally, in Rich's preliminary report,

"This was a complex removal and installation that was complicated by the lack of documentation of what was installed in 1988.  There were only unreliable oral histories describing the installed tackle.  

The removed tackle will be inventoried next week, but it  was roughly 4 five ton anchors, two less than 5 ton concrete blocks, and enormous amount of chain.  

The Manson and Westar crews safely performed this complex evolution with seamless teamwork, and  professionalism.  When changes were needed from the detailed workplan (ship happens), the crew adapted quickly and without a fuss.  

On both days crews from a competitor's crane barge working the Hyde Street fuel dock and the SF Port crew working on Pier 45 came to take photos and admire the workmanship of the Manson and Westar crews. "

I have to echo Rich's final comment: "I can only begin to express how thankful the Board of Trustees, Staff and Volunteers caring for  PAMPANITO are for generosity of Manson, Westar, MARAD and Dutra.  We will all sleep much better through this winter's northerly storms."

Several hundred photos taken by several photographers - Ships Manager Aaron Washington is sorting them now, will post some representative shots here as they become available.

BRAVO ZULU, Rich, Bittner-Shen, US MARAD, Westar, and Manson!  

10

Museum Submarine Discussion / Re: Congratulations to Lance Dean and Tom Bowser

« on: September 17, 2010, 07:49:41 PM »

Tom, Lance - BRAVO ZULU

///SOB[/size]

11

Museum Submarine Discussion / An Even Bigger Challenge for Museum Boats

« on: September 14, 2010, 12:49:42 AM »

I note that this thread started in June of 2008 and a lot of topics regarding management and subvet versus civilian management have been aired. Those who realize each museum boat is unique unto itself in so many significant ways have, at least in my opinion, come closer to seeing the truth. Each boat is indeed unique form of ownership, management, availability of funding, relations with subvets, etc. None of this is a "one size fits all" situation.

Start with ownership - all but a couple of the US boats in the Museum Fleet are "owned" conditionally due to the six or seven page donation contract the Navy issued. From an accounting standpoint, for example, PAMPANITO is carried at zero value on the Association's books due to the conditions of ownership imposed in that particular contract. That "book value" has nothing to do with the cost of operating the boat as a museum or the costs of maintaining her according to Navy standards - and annual inspections which the Association must, indeed, account for. But, because the Association does not have the right to dispose of PAMPANITO either by donation or by sending her off to the scrapyard, the Association "owns" only the responsibility to be a good and faithful steward of the boat.

Management of a memorial submarine has been a point of controversy for years - as is evidenced by posts in this forum as well as elsewhere. I'm a subvet - in fact, I qualified both silver and gold - which makes me NOT an authority, but I certainly believe I can grasp most of the management issues. Again, back to my opening thought - each museum boat is unique. So, considering management, whether it be "civilian" or subvet, some boats have had success with each model - and others have had their asses handed to them under the same models.

I'm of the opinion subvets have literally saved some of these treasures from the scrap yard - and in other cases, subvets have caused significant harm to museum boats. Ditto civilian management. Or, said another way, seeking the perfect form of management is much akin to looking for a virgin in a cathouse. Good luck.

Funding is a major issue in either scenario - subvet or civilian managed. There are no easy answers and again, even the so-called basics do not conform with a “one size fits all” approach. I’m aware of a couple of museum submarines who have benefitted from former crew - or their families - making major donations. In other cases, the museum boats are located in areas that benefit from either high tourism or strong local support and commitment. Others are simply dying on the vine despite everyone’s concerted efforts to the contrary.

Someone posted in this thread to the effect “just because you have a passion for a museum boat, don’t expect that everyone you meet will share that passion.” Well stated.

So, raising funding is as much an individual museum boat issue as the rest of the picture is an individual boat issue.

Relations with subvets are the non-linear piece of the equation. Some posters comment that all the subvets want to do is hang out and swap no-shitters. Those posters, from their particular perspectives, are probably 100% correct. Other posters point to a dedicated handful of subvets literally saving a boat from the scrapyard. You know what? They are also 100% correct. Again, the individual museum boat is the focus, not the entire museum boat fleet.

Sadly, there are no easy answers here either. But I have to agree with those posters who hold that no matter who owns the boat or manages it, it is always a precious historic artifact that requires preservation, restoration, and interpretation (that’s a polite word for telling the public what the boat is all about and its historic role in service to our country).

All of these challenges have been with us from day one and will persist long past our respective lifetimes with little net change as a whole. Some museum boats will repair their problems and at the same time, others will find a way to let their problems bound out of control and adversely impact them.

All of that being said, I see an even bigger problem - we know our WWII brothers are dying off at a horrible rate. Look around, you cold war vets, especially the DBFers - we are also getting into our declining years.

So if a museum boat is going to depend upon subvets, they need to make a major shift in focus to getting the nuke types involved as docents and repair gangs. I don’t see this happening on a consistent basis. Instead, unfortunately, what I’m seeing and hearing of is that dastardly “them-vs-us” attitude. Even the DBFers who ultimately went Nuke are in that same group of cold war vets.

PAMPANITO has a strong cadre of WWII and cold war DBFers - docents as well as repair and restoration folks. We also have some dedicated civilians -- and, behold, a few Nukes now joining our ranks. Bless ‘em all!

The docent “script” for PAMPANITO’s role in WWII is the backbone of our interpretation program and in some cases - yes, I’ll stick my neck out and say this - the Nukes and civilians in general get a far better grasp on that portion of our mission than some of the DBFers do.

Yes, with regard to our interpretative mission, our esteemed WWII boys can speak with authority because they BTDT. The DBFers generally can translate their experience back a few years.

But to the Nukes and civilians, this is an entirely new world.

Our latest Volunteer Manual has this to say:

“3.0.2 DIESEL AND NUCLEAR - A GUT ISSUE TO SETTLE RIGHT UP FRONT

PAMPANITO’s Docent corps increasingly includes more nuclear submariners with very little or no diesel boat experience. A major influx of non-submariner Docents cannot be that far off.

Indeed, some memorial museum boats already have a high percentage of civilian Docents who never served in the military, let alone submarines. Many are college students studying museum management who are required to perform intern work. PAMPANITO has had the services of such interns, but thus far, never as Docents.

This is an obvious progression from DBF to NBF and civilians because, unfortunately, the infirmities of age are catching up with our diesel boat brothers and they are becoming too infirm to serve as Docents. Each year, we see the DBF content of our Docent program dropping.

The day is not far off when PAMPANITO will no longer be blessed with WWII subvet Docents and soon thereafter, our Cold War diesel boat veterans will join that same chapter of bygone days.

This inevitable, disheartening progression underscores an essential point, however:

Your role as a PAMPANITO Docent is to assist our visitors in understanding what life was like aboard a WWII submarine such as PAMPANITO.

Thus, your commentary should never dwell on nuclear submarines except to briefly answer questions that may arise about the differences between nuclear and diesel submarines’ capabilities.

Out of respect to our WWII brothers, Docents should never engage in discussions whether nuclear or diesel boats were “better.”

Each was “best” for its own reasons. Each served or serves its purpose capably and with distinction. Denigrating the other is simply churlish behavior that the Association will not tolerate.

The plain fact of life is that from USS HOLLAND in 1900 on, throughout WWI and WWII and for many years into the Cold War, the United States Navy only had internal combustion engine-powered boats. Today, the USN only has nuclear powered boats.

Irrespective of the source of propulsion power, those who sailed in harm’s way aboard submarines in service to our country served in boats the Navy assigned them to -- and they made the best possible use of the warfighting machines they served in, no matter how it was propelled.

Honoring the memory of ALL submariners -- of all times, wars, and propulsion power -- is an important mission that PAMPANITO serves.

Docents must continue to demonstrate respect for all submariners.”[/size]

12

New Member Introductions / Re: Thirteen subs in eight weeks

« on: July 16, 2010, 12:44:30 PM »

If you visit Pampanito, you will find that the conning tower is blocked by a grating. The wonderful views found in their virtual tour are indeed "virtual". I managed to get the lense of my camera through it and grab a few awkward photos, but it's certainly not accessible. By contrast that dome-shaped grating on Batfish lets a visitor stand on the ladder head-and-shoulders inside the conning tower for a much better view. It's rather unique.

[/i]

I can speak to this problem fairly directly.

Early on, there was a major push to make PAMPANITO's Conning Tower [indeed, the whole boat] fully accessible. We were foiled by our lawyers and insurance company.

The major issue for PAMPANITO is that it is located in California and trying to obtain injury insurance that will permit the visiting public to climb vertical ladders is so damn expensive that it is simply unaffordable. Every two years or so, PAMPANITO gets multiple bids on insurance coverage including an option to open the Conning Tower. The premium quotes for that added coverage are even higher every time. BATFISH's dome approach is great except in PAMPANITO's case, there is still that vertical ladder problem.

PAMPANITO does have a solution, however - any subvet who identifies himself as such and signs the logbook not only gets free admission to the boat, he can also have access to the Radio Room and Conning Tower.

In addition, Docents are permitted to take non-subvet visitors into the Conn on a discretionary basis. This policy is not advertised because it is a selective risk PAMPANITO's management is willing to take. This is touchy because the general visitor will feel "cheated" if the Conning Tower appears to be open to some but not to all.

I've actually been physically threatened because we were doing work in the Conn and I stood on the ladder, blocking the ungrated hatch. A  visitor demanded that I permit him to go into the Conn "because those guys are up there..." As you can see, it is a touchy situation at best.

PAMPANITO has a conning tower in the warehouse with hopes of a dockside museum someday that will allow even ADA access to a conning tower.

13

Submarine Related Chatter / Re: GUPPY III question

« on: July 15, 2010, 08:32:50 AM »

Paul's reference to Alden is probably the best general info available. If you have a specific boat in mind, the best source would be the pre and post conversion drawings. Framing is shown in the Booklet of General Plans as well as detailed hull drawings.

However, frame numbers can vary by 1 or 2 depending upon whether the G-III is a conversion of a TENCH boat completed as same or a TENCH boat that had construction halted at the end of the war, then redesigned and completed (as opposed to converted) as a G-II in the 1947-1949 timeframe. VOLADOR SS-490 is one of the latter.

I'll recover the frame numbers from my qual notebook, but I can tell you this much right now -- during the G-III conversion, VOLADOR's pressure hull was cut on the Control Room side of the Control Room/Forward Battery bulkhead, some 3" or so aft of that bulkhead. Thus, the Forward Battery compartment remained untouched insofar as the additional hull section was concerned.

Once the two sections were moved apart to permit insertion of the ~ 15' additional section, FADM Nimitz came down unannounced after dinner one evening when Hunters Point was quiet in order to see this unusual sight. I had the duty and was awestruck when I realized who our visitor was, as he arrived in one of those long black Chryslers that admirals had, but his flag was sheathed. The old gent spryly hopped out of his sedan before his driver could make it around to open the door for him.

After having a lengthy look from the apron, he went aboard the boat in drydock, crawled around all of the wires and air hoses, and toured from stem-to-stern, asking a zillion questions along the way.

I have no idea how old he was at the time, but he navigated his way thru the maze as if he was 18.

What crew we had remaining during the conversion were housed and fed in the barracks up on the hill, but we had a small ("unapproved") galley set up on the barge. As it turns out, we had "requisitioned" some cherry pie and ice cream from the galley that evening and he instantly spotted the contraband. As he put it, it was necessary for him to inspect the "evidence" - which he did, two heaping helpings worth.

I had never been within 100 yards of an admiral before, so you can imagine what it was like to actually shake hands with a 5-star WW-II hero the first time out.

14

Submarine Related Chatter / Re: Docent Tests

« on: December 27, 2009, 05:12:19 AM »

Mark - you are definitely on the right track - as I've commented before, not only are our WWII brothers dying off, we are also losing DBFers from post-WWII at an alarming rate. PAMPANITO has been working to recruit nuke submariners as well as truly interested civilians to start coming into the docent pipeline. If we don't, we'll be out of qualified docents in a few more years. Thus, setting up some form of docent exam accomplishes many positive things -- plus, it helps some of our DBFers keep the facts straight as well.

PAMPANITO doesn't have an exam per-se at this point, but we are developing a series of detailed, illustrated manuals for such evolutions as reballasting the boat, starting an engine, raising a scope, as well as several others. Plus we have an extensive docent manual that gives PAMPANITO's history from construction thru becoming a museum boat and provides lots of detailed info on most of the systems.

What we really lack at this point is much detail to answer "what was it like" questions. Our audio tour (iPod based) uses actual WWII crewmembers to narrate each compartment that adds a lot of "color" to the tour because to some extent, they describe conditions on a war patrol. This audio tour is available at our website if you want to give it a listen.

15

Submarine Related Chatter / Re: Where does this belong?

« on: December 27, 2009, 04:42:31 AM »

Standard USN paper in that timeframe was 8"X10-1/2" -- in looking at a blowup photo of the box, it appears that there is an internal divider so I'd guess that each compartment is 4" wide by 6" high and 4-1/2" deep.

Those dimensions rule out cutting the paper in half - i.e. 5-1/4"X8" BUT it could accommodate quartered paper, i.e. 4"X5-1/4" -- I recall seeing forms printed aboard USS SPERRY AS-12 in the mid 50s that were 1/4 of a standard page, including My Wife chits.

I'd look in the Crews Mess first - that is where all of the My Wife chits were available to the crew in most diesel boats that I can recall. Otherwise, look on the bulkhead outside the YN shack for matching screw holes ....