SUBMARINEMUSEUMS.ORG Forum
General Boards => Museum Submarine Discussion => Topic started by: Mike on May 07, 2015, 11:01:17 PM
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Am I the only one still checking this site and squinting at the lack of activity here?
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Well....as far as posting ...The very-active posting Batfish crew was abandoned and betrayed by the park so they abandonded the ship and the board, The Torsk crew is still kicked off their boat and several of the old board members have passed on or become inactive. :'(
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I'm still around and check the site daily. I sure do miss the old times when there was a lot of info to read.
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I was wondering about the TVA situation, Jim. Very unfortunate that this is still where they are with the whole thing. The Batfish... I don't know what to say.
I think we all miss the input from all of these great folks. I stumbled onto this board almost a year ago, and it seems that I was several years too late to truly enjoy the discussion. At least, as I keep mentioning, these incredible "conversations" are preserved here for someone else to happen upon them once the dust has settled. Perhaps even pick up and continue on... I refuse to consider the sporadic posts as a sort of epitaph of the sharing of ideas, knowledge, and concerns, though. After all, the next generation we... well mostly you - the frenzied fountains of knowledge from years ago... have touched are out there waiting to pick up and learn about manual rigging of bow planes, corrosion, and camaraderie which these boats bring...
If I'm meandering upon the point, it is solely out of frustration...
:)
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I hear ya, Mike.
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Mike,
I totally agree with your assessment. However, I still don't understand why nearly all of the past contributors have left this site. I understand the frustrations many have had with some of the museums, but that does not explain why most have abandoned this site. :(
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Most ALL of the forums/BBS sites that I visit have seen a decrease in activity with the onset of Facebook and other new versions of easy social media. Just part of the times I suppose. While this site does have a Facebook fan page, it's simply a way to share news of things going on with different museums. I don't really want to abandon this place in favor of a Facebook group. Too much to invest with the possibility of Facebook changing the terms down the road.
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I don't do FB so I hadn't realized there was a FB page. ;D
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Most ALL of the forums/BBS sites that I visit have seen a decrease in activity with the onset of Facebook and other new versions of easy social media.
I run/maintain the Batfish website. I used to post "happenings at the park" on the page, but now I don't because I'm not told of what's going on. The park has decided to go with their Facebook page to post these events. I'm about ready to strip all the park stuff off the website and say something like "to know more about the park, visit their Facebook page" and then put a link to it. I keep getting emails about hours and events and other stuff that I clearly state on the site to email the park and put the parks contact info on the site. I get tired of having to forward to Brent so I just delete the emails now. Not my fault if people can't read.
However, I still don't understand why nearly all of the past contributors have left this site. I understand the frustrations many have had with some of the museums, but that does not explain why most have abandoned this site.
Not sure if you've ever volunteered at a park or not. But unless you have experienced the crap volunteers put up with from mis-managed parks, then it's hard to explain. It was really hard to walk away, but it came to a point where I had to. the reasons are posted elsewhere here. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I had to cut all ties and move on or it would just eat at me. I've moved on to other things I like to do and would rather spend my time doing that than re-hashing Batfish stuff. I was there about 15 years and in all that time we did do good stuff, but the politics never changed and that's what wore me out.
Not sure if I answered anyone's questions. I really don't visit this site anymore...but I do stop in once in a while. I feel I've burned some bridges and when I do check in, there isn't any activity so I quickly scan and leave.
Mark
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I cannot even begin to fathom the level of frustration and irritation you have, Mark, and I can only guess that others share your feelings as well... I have similar levels of unfathomable and irrational irritation at similar levels of bureaucratic bumbling and misfortune, so I can relate - after all, I have loved aviation as long as I can remember, and now want as little to do with it as possible, knowing what goes on when the rotor stops turning.
However, I think the point I hope to make with my occasional posts is that there has to be a point where inspiration and passion, even if naive and unknowing of the problems ahead, carries the torch which you guys lit and works with borderline insanity to try to overcome the incompetent and impartial leadership which seems to plague some boats...
It may never change. Pick up any collection of Bill Maudlin's comics and you can easily see disturbing parallels with the days of "Willie and Joe" to the guys of today. The only difference is, some of us can look back, see what didn't work, and either not make the same mistakes all over again, or "embrace the suck" and find a way to make it more tolerable...
[shrug]
Then again, I could be completely wrong... only time will tell :)
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Mark,
I hope you understand that my post was not directed solely at you or any of the various museum volunteers, but mainly at others that frequented this site. Even though I have never volunteered at a park, I have spent on average 10 to 15 hours every week at other organizations and I know the feeling of not being appreciated for the amount of time and work expended to help. I also have been an administrator on 2 web sites one of them for over 12 years. My main concern was that hardly any museums are posting updates here and that is a shame.
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Hi Everyone
OK I am one of the guilty ones that hasn't posted in a long time. Sorry. I am still on the Drum every day but I am taking an occasional weekend or day off. We are still in the fuel tanks rebuilding the structure and repainting compartments inside. There just hasn't been any thing of interest to post. Things have not changed as far as support from the park, I won't go into that much here. We have given the Silversides some of our engine parts and tools. I was really sorry to hear about the Torsk and Batfish. Also it just seems that the clock is moving faster and I can't seem to find the time to post, I will try to do better. a minor thing we have done is to blow the boats horn, it was great, Lesley was grinning for two days. We have found more objects inside the boat including a bottle of Vaseline hair tonic, still 3/4 full and other items. We haven't been able to find some one to sand blast and paint inside the tanks yet. I will try to do better and post some photos soon.
Tom
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Thanks for the update, Tom. 8)
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Getting to meet Mark Allen, Paul Farace, Rich Pekelney, Tom Bowser, and others in person because of this place has been awesome. I miss the old times. We were in a high time of transition from a passing on of the WWII guys to a new bunch of caretakers. Now I'm not so sure what will become of these treasures with the economy and general feelings of the public. Everyone wants everything to be perfect, but the bottom line won't allow it, anywhere. Volunteers are the key. Why making volunteering so difficult and burdensome is beyond me.
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Tom,
Great to hear from you again, and thank you for the update on the Drum. My son and I were out last summer and the work you and Lesley have done is amazing. I actually used the efforts both of you have made as an example in a paper for college describing the challenges faced with submarine museums. Thanks for the inspiration and work in preservation and restoration...
Lance, while I haven't yet had the opportunity to meet folks from here face to face, the insight and discussion has been far more valuable than anything I could glean from mere books. Yes, the "old times" may have come and gone, but the fact that people are still reading and responding shows that the interest and spark is still there. Just needs a little more air and fuel to get going again. The "passing of the torch" to the current caretakers is far from done, and will never be complete as long as these cherished boats are still around.
As far as "what will become of these treasures", my crystal ball is tinged with oxide sediment and brakish water, but the answer is somewhere there. I think that "perfection" needs to be rethought and the chaos that management, volunteers, and the elements needs to be somewhat welcomed due to its stedfast determination to not be molded into something ideal. As is said in whatever Uniform is worn: "embrace the suck". If you fight it, you go mad... so it is best to rethink the approach and choose a better angle. Again, as I have said before, this is the perspective of an outsider looking in, but sometimes that offers a better viewpoint than six inches off the muck.
The world of non-profits is amazing, when one really starts to look behind the curtain. The analogy of a onion is best in this case because the more you peel, the more you might start to cry. However, the flavor of the efforts and people you come across behind the curtain can be the one thing which really ties the dish together...
Before I forget, I've been poking around the Restoration Facility for what will eventually form the National Armor and Calvary Museum... Quite a collection, and I have caught myself thinking "Subs are EASY compared to this..." at times. Rust is a common enemy for all, but when you are talking about 30-70 ton tanks and engines not being able to be mounted due to the lack of structural integrity... whoa.
Digression aside, there was a comment made about the problems with Federal funding not making it to museums due to a hold from Congress... I'm in the process of digging on this, but I find it questionable since any museum I can think of is a 501(c)(3) organization. Can anyone clarify this for me and point me to a good reference? I've got "Exhibiting Public Value: Government Funding for Museums in the United States December 2008" open only because it was the first thing to pop up, and I will keep going, but I figure that this crowd is probably the best place to give me course corrections in my path of my own intelligence process...
Thanks to all for still reading and posting - the ember is still glowing, and I'm still processing.
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Mike,
Sure, most or all of these museums are non profits. But that still impedes money getting to where it needs to be. Any donation given to a museum goes to the museum - a board or a person or people that decide where to put the money. From what I've seen, that leads to neglect of some things. I know there's never enough money to go around. Museums get new things to upkeep all the time as well. There are very few places that have just a submarine as the main attraction, and even in those places there is deterioration running wild.
Volunteering these days, ugh. The world we live in of liability, insurance, craziness, makes it so difficult. Take the Drum for example. She's open to the public 364 days a year. Can't volunteer much during the day because visitors are present. Can't volunteer after hours because there are no restrooms available without leaving one of the other buildings unlocked.
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Thanks for posting that Lanc, one day I will be able to fill in more.
Tom
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Oy, I was re-reading my previous post and my OCD kicked in once I spotted the typos... :)
Lance - you brought up an interesting point: "most or all of these museums are non profits"... I thought they all were. Now that I have the time to ponder over it a bit more, it is kind of like trying to conceptualize ideas like "dry snow" or "democratic socialism"... all I keep coming up with is "does not compute - insufficient data".
Managing finances for these boats seems like it could be almost a matter of playing "crisis whack-a-mole", and managing the on-site resources/time available issue as you mentioned would be yet another possible headache along with the overall scarcity of capable and consistent volunteers. All of which are individual "big issues", really... but what continues to amaze me it the devotion you all have for your respective boats. :)
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Mike,
There is a lot of things that you don't see that has happened behind closed doors and what has happened in the open.. While TVA is back onboard the Torsk things feel different from a far, I haven't been onboard her since '11 and I am too far away to volunteer on her anymore.
BTW if you are talking about the national Armor museum at Ft Benning they have a new museum director that is by far the best of the best that I have ever worked with and he will make the museum a special one to visit.
To answer you question regarding why don't more museums contribute anymore?? a lot of us have moved on and we taught what we could and can only hope that we taught enough for the future generations.
For me to re-teach the school of the boat would mean that I would have to delete the current one with all of the great answers and solutions and no offense I don't have it in me to go through that once more because you can only teach the Balao class of boats one time and there are more then just the Balao class boats out there
V/R,
Darrin