One submarine on display, which one?

[Fred Tannenbaum]

Responding to Darrin's post about the work being done by the volunteers and donors: Problem is at some boats is that unless the management or "owners" as Darrin puts it have a VISION and a CORRECT vision for a submarine, volunteer efforts can go for naught. If the owners are or become short sighted or even, yes, JEALOUS of the volunteers who work harder, do more research and even forge friendships with former crewmembers, the volunteers can be and are driven off. Even in those organizations with volunteers, they still have to put up with short-sighted management. How long have the Torsk volunteers wanted to paint over those silly-looking teeth but can't because of the greek fisherman-cap wearing managers like them?

And while Darrin may believe Torsk "still needs a lot of love," I think that fails to take into account the tremendous amount of love and extremely hard work the Torsk Volunteer Association has done for at least the past 10 years, including more work weekends than I can count.

[Darrin]

Trust me Fred,
I have seen all of the love and hard work put into torsk and she was in bad shape when TVA was allowed to come onboard and I do remember the first call for a work weekend to save her and at that time I was in the 101st ABN and couldn't take the time off and had it not been for my current duty assignment and TorskDoc finally telling me to put up or shut up (NBF vs DBF) that I took the challange and before I went I made sure that I reviewed ALL of the work weekend stuff that had been posted and read all of the bbs traffic and when I first got onboard in '04 to today is a HUGE improvement of what she used to look and feel like. While she will always need love and attention she has come a LONG way in the last 10 years and I am extremely proud of her volunteers and to be called a "local" volunteer by those onboard because I have been able to come up more then a couple of times a year. Hell in the last 4 years I have done 20 or so strip ships and numerous site surveys for the volunteers coming down and each time finding more stuff that we needed, the last 2 or 3 strip ships we have been on we have actually become picky to what we needed out of the dead fleet and it was nice to know that we didn't need everything that we could get our hands onto to make her more liveable and more workable.  While TVA walks on egg shells with BMM and now the Constellation maritime administration (they took over BMM) we don't want to step on their toes and be told not to come back after all of the years of hard work and dedication that has been put in by so many volunteers.

Darrin

[Lance Dean]

...How long have the Torsk volunteers wanted to paint over those silly-looking teeth but can't because of the greek fisherman-cap wearing managers like them?...

While the shark's teeth paint isn't historically accurate or whatever, I do think it's "cool".  One thing for sure, when you see those teeth you KNOW it's the Torsk.  And I must mention that when running the convention slideshow DVD by some family members, the 5 to 9 year old kids that were there went CRAZY when they saw the Torsk.  They like the shark teeth! 

Eh, it's just paint (not permanent).  At least it's not rust.   

[Darrin]

I have argued the point about those sharks teeth and lost more then a few times, IF they wanted teeth on the boat that is fine with me because the USS Baya had them on her during WWII and I have volunteered to paint them on and they are nothing like the "digitized" version of the teeth that Baya had on her bow while in service. There are a number of tourists that have come onboard because of those teeth and the kids have seen them and asked to go see the "shark" submarine. Heck he USS Von Stueben had them painted on her during the early 70's and I do have pics of her and the Baya and the teeth that are on Torsk while it has brought tourist's to us isn't historically accurate in any way shape or form and while we may dislike them we aren't allowed to paint over them. BTW TorskDoc a few weeks ago brought the Bow Planes back to their correct position using come alongs and then blocked them in place so they won't move back down to where they had been before, so a lot of pictures from the bow of the boat have to be retaken to get her back to be correct, that and painting the area where the bow planes had set for many years. Down the line... way down the line is to extend the bow planes and then clean/chip/paint that whole area and get it back up to snuff.

Darrin

[JohnG]

I think the shark teeth are cool and add a lot of character to it, and it is acceptable for the time period. Win win situation.

[JTheotonio]

I guess you are referring to this shot of the Von Steuben (SSBN 632).  Beside the Picuda, I made two patrols on the Von Steuben.

[Darrin]

What years did you serve on the Von Stueben?? because ETC (SS) Mike Eacho of Torsk fame also did time on the Von Stueben and i am sure that if you two served in the same time frame that he would be happy to swap sea stories with you about her. And yes that is the pic that I was referring to.

Darrin

[Fred Tannenbaum]

Guys:

First, the Torsk never wore teeth in service. I don't know how the word "digitized" is being used for the Baya's teeth but I think they're at least a much better job. Besides they were painted on by a crew exuberant over having just won the greatest struggle for freedom and democracy in our history. Finally, while Torsk's teeth may "look cool" to some and that some may consider them a draw to visitors, I would suggest that Torsk will draw people ANYWAY to her because she stands out in the harbor and is a submarine, which subconsciously (no pun intended) inspires a sense of wonder and adventure among people who've never had much, if any, exposure to them.

If people want to go around painting sharks mouths on our museum boats because "it looks cool," then the historic ship preservation movement just took several massive steps backward. 

[Lance Dean]

More on USS Baya:

http://www.ussbaya.com/image53.html

http://www.ussbaya.com/image37.html

Very interesting.

[JTheotonio]

I was on the Von Steuben around 1966-67

[JTheotonio]

More on USS Baya:

Interesting, but very visible from the air and that topside didn't look like a traditional paint job either.  Didn't boats have certain camouflage schemes?  Was this after hostilities?

[Darrin]

The teeth that are on Torsk are the digitized version that I was talking about and it would be great to honor the USS Baya by painting her teeth on Torsk but again she never had them during her time while she was commissioned so would it be a step forward or a step backwards on that one?? Fred is right, Torsk will draw visitors no matter what is painted on her bow because the fact that they are in the Inner Harbor and that we do get a good bit of over flow traffic of tourist's waiting to get into the acquarium and honestly those teeth while awful to look at has brought a number of families over the years because the kids see it and want to go onboard.