Author Topic: How little military history we know....  (Read 15134 times)

Offline Paul Farace

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How little military history we know....
« on: September 02, 2008, 08:15:31 PM »
Just watched a bit of the RNC coverage on FOX... the big anchor commentator was describing how the elder President Bush's plane attacked a Japanese installation on the Island of Chachi Jima where he was hit by flak and he and two other crewmen had to EJECT and only Bush senior survived to be rescued by a DESTROYER...  :tickedoff:
 
My sympathies to the men of the USS FINBACK who pulled Bush Sr. out of the drink, almost under the guns of the Jap island, and I guess it might be nit picking to fault the under-40-year-old anchor with not knowing that ejection seats were something of the Cold War era... the boys in the wild blue of WWII had to BAIL OUT!!!
 

military history geek
PF

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Offline MWALLEN

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 08:34:01 PM »
It probably wasn't so much the anchor's fault as it was the script writer...geez...doesn't anyone check this stuff anymore?

No Paul...it's not nitpicking.  It's called being too lazy to do the research.

Mark A.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2008, 09:49:27 PM »
Also, his plane only had two guys in it.  They probably meant to say that fellow crew members from some of the other planes in his squadron had bailed out, but only he was rescued. 

Have either of you read "Fly Boys"?  It's a good book that covers some of the events surrounding Chi Chi Jima, including Bush's ordeal and the fate of some of the other not so lucky crewmen that were picked up by the Japs and later beheaded.  One of the nastiest Jap commander SOBs was in charge of that island's defense.

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Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline JTheotonio

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2008, 09:55:34 PM »
It's not like they have not seen this for about 20 years - come one.  There is no end of information on this...

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq10-3.htm
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Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2008, 09:58:39 PM »
Even that website says that he was pulled out of the water by a destroyer.  Was that your point, JT?

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Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline Lance Dean

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2008, 10:14:05 PM »
Hmm...wasn't he offloaded to a destroyer later?

Offline MWALLEN

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2008, 11:42:20 PM »
Quote
Have either of you read "Fly Boys"?

It's on my bookshelf..won it off ebay about a month ago brand new.  I guess I should give it a read.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" - Edmund Burke

Offline JohnG

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 02:34:54 AM »
Eject....bail out. Same difference. The only difference between them is technology. Sure we can be stitch nazis and criticize them but to the general public it's the same thing. For most people on this forum there Fathers were in WW2 and heard the stuff with no gap. But You get people mine and Travis's age, ~19 years old, and it's our Grand and sometimes great grandfathers. It's kind of like going going into the differences between a M16a1 and a2 (for all the gun freaks! ;)).

I just see this alot in many different history, military, reenacting sites and groups. Of course we know. We have spent years learning it. True the USS Finback wasn't mentioned, but thats because Submariners are that cool. Rick says this alot: What does the average person know about a sub?

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Offline JTheotonio

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2008, 05:46:01 AM »
Even that website says that he was pulled out of the water by a destroyer.  Was that your point, JT?

That reporting is done by dumb people.  I was looking for the tribute that Bush gave to the sub crew that pulled him out of the water.  Not too long ago he either gave or was given a pistol that had to do with his rescure.   He did it in Philadelphia.  Man my brain is getting bad...  :-[
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Offline Darrin

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2008, 06:19:51 AM »
Aparently George Sr was shot down twice, once as an Ensign and picked up by a destroyer and the second time as a Ltjg when he was picked up by the Finback. The answer for this was posted on Rontini's bbs by another historian

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2008, 08:50:24 AM »
The website that JT posted had him getting picked up by a destroyer off of ChiChi Jima, if I read it correctly.  So, it sounds like the writer of the website and the news anchor both got their events confused.  This goes to show you that you have to be careful about what you read and believe when it's posted on the net.

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
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"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline Paul Farace

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 11:44:08 AM »
One of the prices WE have to PAY for playing on our subs (or any historical site) is that we have to be guardians of truth and accuracy... we don't have to hang folks for mistakes, but make some noise to correct things...   :knuppel2:

I forgot that Bush did get shot down TWICE!!! So the credit to the DD is OK, but why didn't they make hay out of the fact that he was shot down twice?  You know if he were running for office today, they'd make an issue of it!

Interesting case that is related:

I was manning COD's torpedo transporter and Mk. 14 display at the Cleveland Air Show over the weekend (we were parked next the the Marine OSPREY, NEAT!) and some guy comes up to us and slaps the torpedo on the rack of the NAVY truck transporter and declares for all to hear, "We NEVER should have purchased these damn defective torpedoes and those crappy magnetic exploders from the BRITISH before WWII!"  He then continued to say how we lost some of our subs because the British tecnology was so bad...   At which point I cut him off by saying, even a bit louder than he was talking (because I CAN TALK LOUDER), "You're WRONG, You're WRONG, You're WRONG!!!"

He was a bit suprised by the contrary declaration and responded by reaching into his pocket and pulling out a Zippo lighter and holding it up to my face. One of my fellow COD directors was standing next to me trying to make sense of the guy's odd mistaken history... he broke up when I answered:  "I am sorry to see that you smoke!"  He answered: "Check out the engraving."  It was a set of dolphins with the name of a boomer.  I then replied "OK, congratulations, you're a submarine veteran."  He said, "Yes, I am a plank owner..."   To which I answered, "When did the history of WWII ordinance ever make it into the syllabus at New London?"

In a friendly way (I just didn't want mistaken history to go unchallenged) I provided a brief explanation of our torpedo production and how there was NO exchange of technology between us and the Brits before 1942!

The bad news -- I now had a new friend who we couldn't shake for the next two hours, as he told us countless stories about his days as a pharmacist mate on tin cans and a boomer. :'(
Johnny Cash's third cousin, twice removed

Offline JTheotonio

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 12:36:28 PM »
Sadly history is being rewriten and distorted to "bend" facts.  Liberal education (or educators) is making a mockery of what the US has done during its short history.  :'(
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Offline Rick

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2008, 12:47:32 PM »
It is a growing pscifism that continues in america.  We have had things so good for so long that we try to dumb down the realizms of war.  We do not want to hear about people getting mamed amd blown apart by 5 in shells.  We cannot conseve what being stuck in a POW camp for 4 years with only a rice broth chocked full of insects, and rats (and whatever else was scooped up with the rice)to eat  Just go to an average american now days and tell them that there is an acceptable level of roadent hair allwed in their peanut butter.   what makes it wors id how the news media "sensationaliist Jurnalism" plays on this. 

We as historians have to first accept that were the public is comming from (non-war and non-military).  Then we have to try and educate them.  Thiw will take some shock and awe reality. 

Rick

Offline emeacho

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Re: How little military history we know....
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2008, 12:53:47 PM »
The problem with most generations is that they don't know the history of their country.  As a result they repeat the mistakes of the past generations over and over again.  My biggest fear is that with the downsizing of the American military are we heading for Pearl Harbor II.  It could make 9/11 look like a simple street crime.  Ahhh, but why worry about that, who would dare strike at America???