Author Topic: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)  (Read 5319 times)

Offline Darrin

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School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« on: December 09, 2008, 11:47:23 AM »
Seeing how the posts to the bbs and to this string have died out somewhat due to the holidays, I am going to be going over everything that has been covered up to this point in time and to do that I am going to try to make it a situational thing (I hope)

So where do we start????

Well little Johnny or Jane was on a sleep over last night onboard with the rest of there pack of rug rats and they played with just about everything that their little hearts desired because the docents didn't know or care as to what they were doing because they were trying to corral the rest of the group up to keep them out of trouble... But what the docent's didn't know is that little Johnny or Jane had been turning switches on and off all over the boat and other valve handles and now there are problems onboard that the docent has no clue as to how to fix so they leave it for the dedicated volunteers to come and fix the next time that they are on the boat..

A couple of mornings later our super hero docent comes back to the boat and opens it up for tours and notices a different smell, this time it is of something that resembles electrical insulation burning. So with him being the docent that he is he thinks that he is doing the right thing and tries to figure out what compartment that the smell is coming from before he calls the fire dept and he lets his boss know BEFORE he goes onboard that he is investigating a smell of something that may be burning onboard...  after about 10 minutes his boss gets worried and calls below for him but no answer, he also enters the boat and calls as loud as he can for his super troop docent but again no answer... The boss being a hair smarter then the docent realizes that the boat is infact have a small fire onboard because he can smell the wiring burning and now he is able to see some smoke so he leaves the boat and calls 911....

When the fire dept shows 10 or so minutes later up he tells them everything that he knows which is little other then his super docent went down to investigate a smell of some smoke and has not returned and that the docent had mentioned something to him a couple of days ago that some lights don't work right now but he doesn't know which ones or where they are turned on and off from..

Now with that being said where would you start as the volunteer that was called to help and assist the fire dept in securing the power and where would a possible place for a fire to happen on your boat....

Good luck folks and let me know what you all think about where to start with this problem and what some of the corrective actions are for these problems

Offline Lance Dean

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 07:37:45 PM »
Surely there is a big "master" breaker somewhere that could be tripped that would kill the power to everything on the sub?  That's where I'd start I think.

Offline Darrin

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 07:52:37 PM »
Okay,
that is reasonable thinking to start with BUT are you talking about the shore power breakers in Manuvering or are you talking about the shore power connection on the pier or next to the boat if she is in the mud? remember a number of the boats still in the water have their breakers on the pier that may or may not be locked in the ON position, BUT knowing that the boss has the keys to the boat he secures the power at the shore power connection topside...

So now the power is secured to the boat and now what do we do?

Offline Lance Dean

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 08:02:18 PM »
Well, that's kind of like the breaker box in my house vs. the breaker box outside under the meter.  If I thought that something was smelling hot inside the sub, I'd trip the breaker on the outside.  Heck it might even be something in a breaker box inside the sub (maneuvering room).

After the power is off, we'd get into the sub using flashlights I suppose and check for switches that are in the wrong positions.  One of those remote thermal temperature sensors might be handy in something like this.  ?

Offline Darrin

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 08:44:33 PM »
Yup the box is roughly the same thing but bigger in size...   and I don't have any spare thermal imagers laying around topside along with self contained breathing apparatus' so lets let the guys with that cool gear do their job and heck maybe pull out some marshmellows and dogs and see if we can cook them topside ;)

Once the fire dept has cleaned up the fire if there was one and removed our super docent (and hopefully saved him/her) and ventilated the boat out and declared it safe to be onboard again, HOPEFULLY they didn't have to discharge their fire hoses into the boat because that creates a whole new can of worms prior to powering the boat back up so clean up can start so that eventually the boat can reopen for business.

I am right there with ya wanting to go and figure out what switches were tossed into the wrong postition(hopefully that is it) and try to bring shore power back on once more AFTER the effected wiring has been properly secured (capped if needed or re-insulated if you cannot replace them first prior to bringing power back onto the boat)... Make sure that there are a LOT of pictures of the whole area PRIOR to starting work for the insurance company and the fire investigators may have a LOT of questions for you about where the power is supplied to that panel or whatever let loose..

Remember folks I am not busting Lance's chops with this and sadly my sarcasm may be lost in translation over the internet, he is going in the right direction after the fire dept has cleared the scene and shown to be safe and secured.

On the way out the fire dept mentioned that there was a minor fire one of the panels in the Control Room and they DID have to discharge their hoses into the control room for a minute or so... Fortunatly it was not in the after battery berthing area where there is a possibility for a big fire to happen (bunk materials, cork insulation)

Ok folks what do we do next??


Offline Lance Dean

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 09:39:34 PM »
I guess the fire department used foam?

Offline Darrin

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2008, 10:19:22 PM »
Great question Lance,
Honestly I don't know if all of the communities that have museuem submarines have their trucks carrying foam on them at all times, so for ease of this situation we are going to say that no there was no foam sprayed into the control room, but there was a good deal of water pumped into the control room and then drained out of the hose(s) throughout the boat.

1 1/2" fire hose is quite heavy once it is pressurized and I for one will not try to pull a hundered + feet of pressurized fire hose out of a submarine just so the museum doesn't have to clean up the mess, granted I will try to put as much of it into the bilges as possible but for those firemen whom have no clue where our bilges are may just open the nozzle up after the water has been shut off, especially knowing that they just put 100+ gallons of water into your boat.

Offline etkfixr

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 10:28:32 PM »
Well this may be a bit tedious but it is pretty safe.  I'd open the shore breaker in Maneuvering, check that the shore feeder is still dead and then start meggering  the power feeders and panels.  You could slowly bring up power to the boat as you sign off on each circuit.  This would also let you check fuses and switch positions along the way.  The pisser is that you'll have her shut down to the public for a while which means no admission funding.  On the bright side it also means no thieving tourons.  As an after action report item, I'd have the museum build some sort of plexi covers for all of the live panels, or take the switch knobs off, we do it on the Battleship memorial.  Or maybe the thieving tourons have stolen them all!  Terry

Offline Darrin

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 12:53:48 PM »
Terry,
you are absolutely correct in the way to handle the situation with the wiring and opening the boat back up to the tourists, the only way in my opinion to get the circuits re-energized is check them and verify that there is no grounds in the system and make sure that all of the exposed and damaged wiring is replaced. Also it would be a good idea to open up all of the panels in the control room to start letting the condensation out and clean up the mess once the fire investigators have done their investigation and the insurance company has done their survey.

Finding that little Johnny or Jane had turned on a switch that had a wire that was not properly capped off it arced and eventually got hot enough to heat the wiring and insulation up enough for it to create a small fire.. IF you have any wiring that has been cut for equipment that has been removed please cap it off correctly or remove the fuses for that buss if possible to prevent such a situation happening or worse powering on the circuit and a tourist getting electricuted by touching it.

Good job folks

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2008, 05:27:20 PM »
We have some dangling wires (mostly lighting) that have old electrical tape on them, but need to be properly reconnected or stowed/capped.  A few light fixtures are corroded and have maybe a a couple of volts running through them - instead of 120 - as tested with a multimeter.

As of right now Batfish only has power going to lighting and one or two electrical outlets.  My main concern with the kids touching the knobs is the bakelight being brittle and breaking, as has happened several times already.  Our switch/fuse panels that have power are all covered with wire mesh.  With a little effort someone can squeeze a hand up and turn a light on or off, but the lights that have power are usually left on.

We would like to rewire the boat as some point, but make it as hidden as possible leaving the original wiring in place, but no longer functional.  If a certain piece of equipment is ever going to be restored, we would run new wire for it, as well.  Most of the new stuff could be run under the main deck.  Old wiring may have to be removed where it runs through the deck and bulkheads to feed the new stuff through, but it wouldn't be noticeable to visitors.  I just don't envy the electrician that has to tackle that job.

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline Darrin

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2008, 06:16:11 PM »
Mark,
the biggest concern that I have is for the tourists NOT getting electricuted, while the imaginary problem is just that imaginary it however poses a very possible threat that has to be addressed. On Torsk we are still finding wires that have been spliced using old wire nuts and electrical tape that is starting to show it's age and that makes troubleshooting of some of our electrical problems more difficult in finding the problems because the electricians are having to go hand over hand on ALL of our wiring instead of being able to use the ships schematics to diagnose the issues as they arise.

The Radio Room restoration has been a nightmare for our Chief Electricans whom get the gear ready to work once more only to find out that there is an electrical issue and they troubleshoot correctly IAW the manuals only to have to go and then hand trace the wiring throughout the system only to find out that somewhere in her life she had poor splices done that are not a good part of our problems.
And sadly this is happening more and more over the boat as more systems are looked at to bring back online piece by piece.

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2008, 06:39:28 PM »
Oh, I hear ya! A lot of the switches on Batfish are no longer labeled correctly.  At some point someone rewired them... and that's just for the lights.  I can imagine what other systems look like.

Thankfully, we don't have anything exposed to hurt tourists.  Our three big offenders are inaccessible to visitors. 

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline etkfixr

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008, 10:54:56 PM »
Don't know if I'm stating the obvious here.  We have found that tray cable (TC) works great for ship board use.  It is sun-light resistant, gas and oil resistant, comes in a wide variety of sizes and conductor numbers and is pretty small in diameter.  Much better than using SO or SJO flexible and stuff like romex, ugh.  Once you get paint on SO cord its life seems to be measured in days.  We also get armored cable from Anaxter.  They have the real water-tight stuff and also some that is much easier to work with.  We are slowly rewiring the abortion that has been done over the years on the Battleship.  Can't be much better with you all.  Has anyone else run megger checks on the wiring?  Most of our original cabling, stuff dating back to 1942 even, meggers out very nicely.  What kills it it the heat in the light fixtures and weather exposure.  Terry
PS, off topic here, but the USS Laffey sprung a leak and is in bad shape.  They let us berth on her during our living history week ends, not to mention all of the destroyer vet groups that volunteer at Patriot's Point.  So, we are not sure what will happen as far as living arrangements go, but I'm sure they will come up with something.  The bad news is that it will take about 3 mill to dock her which I fear will put the Clamagore that much more in peril of getting there.

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 12:19:49 PM »
Thanks for the heads up on tray cables.  I'll have to look at some to see what you are talking about.  If we hire an electrician, he may not be willing to use that stuff, though.  A lot depends on local and state codes.

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline etkfixr

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Re: School of the boat for 9 Dec 08 (covering what we have done)
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2008, 05:02:03 PM »
Very true.  So far we have been lucky to fall under the chapter of the National Electrical Code (NEC) that states that ships and marine installations are outside the scope of the NEC.  The electrical inspectors don't check our work on the ship.  Even if they did they'd get an anuerism.  No neutral, three phase delta.  The boats must drive them crazy too.  Anyway, I'd try to get all of your work scoped under that loop-hole.  Terry