Author Topic: Covering the Batfish  (Read 7850 times)

Offline Darrin

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Covering the Batfish
« on: February 27, 2013, 04:44:10 PM »
All,

Has it ever been discussed to build a steel pavilion over top of the Batfish? The reason why I ask this is because I built a 45,000 Sq Ft steel pavilion over top of the Fort Eustis Transportation Museum Train Pavilion a few years ago and the benifits were reaped the first few months it was installed.

No longer do the macro artifacts set outside in direct sunlight getting beaten to death and they are no longer exposed to the rain,snow and everything else and it adds a huge bonus.. the tourista's dont get wet in the rain and it can be inclosed and have AC put in so it litterally can be like the U-505 Museum without having to move her.

I used Gulf States Manufacturing on all of the steel pavilions that I did at Ft Eustis (5 total) and their rates are not bad at all.. IF you would like I can do a little leg work and see if I can get an idea put together as to how to cover her?

Darrin

Offline Jim

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 05:34:15 PM »
The only problem would be $$$$, and we're in a flood plane, and wasps... :o   :D

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 06:55:15 PM »
Flood plain is the biggest problem.  The wasps have shrunk in numbers, since they don't like the new purple heart deck wood.  Plus, once the boat was enclosed in a building, they would have no way of getting in there.

Every 100 years the grounds will become part of the river due to flooding and when it isn't flooding, the basin that the boat sits in is at river level and always has a little standing water.  As Jim pointed out in an earlier thread somewhere, the original design of the museum grounds was to have the boat floating in a large pond, but the pond never happened, except when the museum got flooded twice in past decades.

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline Darrin

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 08:44:05 PM »
I am used to having to deal with the 100 year flood plan because at Ft Eustis we were only a few feet above sea level and we periodically had our post flood during oh a hurricane and a nor easter and a few other big storms.. our museum foundation was able to rally and pull the monies together over the years and I am sure that IF you can get a design concept put together and start marketing it you can make it work also

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 10:27:53 PM »
And that's the real trick, isn't it? Putting a good enough story and design together to get people to want to fork the money over.  Ideally, the boat would be moved and the basin filled in.  Then, you'd have to wait at least a year for the dirt to settle and then do more earth moving to prepare for mounting blocks.  We lack sufficient property to move the boat over to do this kind of work.  On the other hand, a pole building with a dirt bottom would still be better than nothing.

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline Jim

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 10:52:19 PM »
Actually, from an engineering standpoint (old civil bridge designing backgound)  I would drill and pier to bedrock close to the hull down both sides (at areas that TOM recommends) and then lift the Bat on cross beams (similar to U-505) and then set adjoining contoured cross beams on the tops of the piers and set her down on them.  These cross beams would have shouldered and crossed wrist pins similar to bridge decking that would allow growth of the BAT fore and aft with temperature change.  I believe this is one of the flaws with DRUM.  As it grows and shrinks with temperature, the poured in place "saddles" fit, then don't and the rubber can't compensate for it.  So, weight is distributed to the different piers as it moves back and forth.  Some are getting tremendous weight while others don't and then back again.  If done correctly, rubber could be used on the contoured cross beams.  If one was really clever a wishbone joint could be put at one end of the beam that would allow hydraulic lowering enough for removal of each cross beam to maintain the hull, replace the rubber and cross beams as they age/wear.  If we had a weight distribution chart per foot of boat (I bet R Pekelney has one somewhere, he has everything) this would be an easy floating-deck statics problem.  Once the boat is on her stage, you fill in the pond area with dirt to bring it to the current shack, er, museum building 's flood plane elevation and decide from there.  I like her being outside. If in, the working scopes would be useless.  Once we get the trees down, the view from the river and turnpike would be spectacular.  In our world (land locked) once this is sealed correctly and protected, there is no reason why she can't last out there "forever".  100 plus year old houses made of wood are everywhere.

They moved (drove) U-505 wih 144 tires on 6 total cross beams.  U-505 is 60 feet shorter and 373 tons lighter but, thats small potatoes in the concept scheme.

Just some thoughts......
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 11:07:41 PM by Blackwing »

Offline Darrin

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2013, 04:19:34 AM »
Mark,

The origional concept for the train pavilion at Ft Eustis was drawn up around 1990 and while it set on the shelf for a while cough cough, it didn't really draw much attention until a volunteer who worked at the base Civil Engineering Division (CED) went through the drawings and projected area and recalculated the numbers only to find out the projected cost was WAY over and that with a little work and a decent contractor it could be built and ready to use to include power for a hair over $500K. The Sq Ft on that project went from 30K to 45K and the cost believe it or not weren't that bad considering the structure is 300' long X 150' wide and the end cross beam height is 22' with the center being roughly 25' tall.

The hardest part was getting the footers correct and ours being in a mix of clay and sand were for the main support beams 12'X12'X4' and the others veried between 6'X6'X4' and 10'X10'X4'. Once those were installed getting the cranes in and having a contractor with really big cajones and LOTS of insurance to install the beams and roofing over top of the existing macro artifacts (some were the only versions left in the world). I believe the total cost of that project to include erection and lights was approximately $543K, will call Ft Eustis today and see what the actual cost was if you all would like.

Jim, I truly understand your concerns and while it would be great to lift Batfish first and get her out of the sand you as an engineer may want to think about what happens to steel that has been buried in wet sand for what 40 years knowing that the tanks were never cleaned out of all of the wet sand on the inside, with that being said and seeing the pictures of the Drum are you willing to risk trying to lift a WWII Submarine that is nearly 70 knowing conditions of another submarine that has been on dry land for years and on blocks now only to see how bad her tanks are rotted let alone the steel beams.

The only way to make our museums macro artifacts that set outside last for the next generation is to put them in a shelter and try to preserve them as best as possible while the monies are being raised to enclose it or get a BIG check book out because the annual repairs and paint are going to get bigger and bigger every year they are left out to rot.

Darrin

Offline Jim

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2013, 04:34:39 AM »
Staying where it is in the sand isn't going to get any better.  Roofing it will make zero difference at its current elevation.  As the river rises with rain so does the surrounding water table and so does the leaching-in "pond" around the Bat.  Lifting it, if supported at enough cross-section doesn't stress the outer structure any more than it is stressed now.  Plus we could get in there to replace the damage before we're CLAM'ed.  It actually might be better.  If we use the hull contour print to make the beam saddles we could correct any damage that may already be done. 

Quoted and built a concrete floor 75' x 300' x 25' center storage facility at my last engineering job.  Poured the slab in two pieces, post tensioned, zero cracks.  Best concrete work I ever had done.  Put ours together for about the same.  $497k with power, alternate generator source and lights.  Oh, and 12, 12' x 20' roll up doors.  All just to store the "stuff".

Offline Darrin

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2013, 05:15:00 AM »
All,

After reviewing the satellite pictures of the Batfish I understand now what Jim has been trying to say along with the others over the years.. Google maps is a great thing sadly the powerpoint that i did is too large to post here showing the last image take of the Batfish to include having some water standing in her "bowl"

The reasonably good thing I think is that the sand and sediment has built up a lot over the years at the river where she was brought on land and is giving the Bat some protection from the river :uglystupid2:

Let me know what I can do to help you if anything,

Darrin

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2013, 10:33:20 AM »
I bet when the 100-year flood hits next time a lot of that sand bar and the trees on it will probably be washed away.

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline Jim

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2013, 01:44:15 PM »
That's really what bothers me Mark.  The large sand bar now causes a split in the river with part of it coming to "our" half of the split.  It will quickly get into the park "bowl".  AS it rises, so will the Bat.  As the eddy current swirls into our bowl in a clockwise fashion due to the down stream flow and "toilet flush" effect, it will tend to push Bat out towards the river.  Once at full flood, we are going to have to fire up the engines for our down river cruise.   :o

The trees out there really have to go to allow water to go over the bar more quickly and to stop debris from hitting it and making the split worse.

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2013, 06:21:48 PM »
Too bad her engines don't work, the control cubicle has been gutted, and a lot of the power cables were cut out and sold by the vets in the early days to keep the museum operational.

The boat has survived two previous floods and the new mooring quays and lines should keep her in relatively the same position.  If we're lucky, the next flood will add more river sediment to the bowl, raising the boat up higher.

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy

Offline Tom Bowser

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2013, 07:28:15 PM »
Put a tall coffer dam around the boat with a flood gate, wait for next flood to raise the boat, close flood gate, back fill with dirt to desired height, drain water.
To put Batfish under cover the roof will need to be approx. 45' high and you could put the scope through the roof.  :2funny:
Tom

Offline Jim

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2013, 11:40:30 PM »
 :2funny: at Tom.  A stealth spy sub-building.  "captain, I think there is road sneaking up on us". "Raise the scope and lets take a look". "Kia sport at 90 degrees!"  "fire 1...fire2...."

Offline Mark Sarsfield

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Re: Covering the Batfish
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2013, 09:03:16 AM »
Ummm... sir... I think the Kia Sport was Rick's car...

Regards,
Mark Sarsfield
USS Batfish reenactor



"If you have one bucket that can hold 5 gallons and one bucket that can hold 2 gallons, how many buckets do you have?" - IQ test from Idiocracy